Cruising Boats (Another Lesson)

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by thomm225

....................but a Tartan 37 might be a good compromise and have a bit of performance

What is it with this Tartan "fixation?"


One skipper I know wrote this about his boat choice about 20 years ago:


We bought our boat in 1994 and it was our first boat. We were comparing the CXYZ34 to a Tartan 34 and a Sabre 34 - all were the same vintage and in equally good condition. The XYZ34 was $50K, the Tartan was $65K and the Sabre was $80K.
Even to my untutored eye the Tartan and the Sabre were superior boats from the point of view of fit and finish - the question became was superior fit and finish worth all that extra money. Our brokers advice was that the XYZ34 would be a "lot of boat for the money" and would hold its resale value at least as well as the other two.
We took his advice and find that, 6 years later, we could probably sell Air Goddess for more than we paid for it and do so very quickly if needed. I don't know how the Tartan and the Sabre have fared in the used boat market but I could not be happier with what has transpired with the XYZ. Plus we have enjoyed the ownership experience - what more could we ask???

[docwood]

So to spin-off this. obviously the bigger the boat the more the cost. Especially long term with mooring docking, slip cost. If my wife and I do want to cruise the Caribbean (even try to make a run to Jamaica which I read is some rougher sailing). What is the minimum length you would choose-understanding that certain makes sail better, and that despite best efforts eventually will get caught in rough seas a time or two Would like 2 berths minimum. Make length and why.

[RSB333]

Downsized from the Whitby 42 to Pearson 34. No comparison in terms of comfort and offshore performance, but since we no longer live aboard, we don't have the time aboard to do all the maintenance the big boat required, so the small boat satisfies our need to get away.
RSB333

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So I was talking to one of my dock mates this evening and he was telling me about all the stuff he planned to buy at the boat show in Annapolis that's coming up (and I thought the $10,000 I have spent on my boat over the last 8 years was a lot. He might spend that at the boat show)

But that isn't the point.

We were talking boats and about his boat that I had never been on. So he invited me to come aboard

His boat is a Formosa 46! (disp 33,000, 13' beam) I loved this boat and couldn't believe the space, large sleeping areas, big engine, 11' dinghy, and the amounts of water (160 gallons) and fuel it can carry.

If I was blind folded and the boat's deck was equal to the dock, I wouldn't have known I was on a boat!

So as I'm walking back to my boat I'm trying to grasp/understand this.

Then I get on my boat to close it up (I was there in the first place to put the sail cover on from yesterday's sail, etc)and it rolls a bit. I entered the cockpit and ……...well I was home

Bristol 27 (6600 lbs disp, 8' beam)

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/formosa-46

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/bristol-27

I'm not sure I understand the point. I've been on many a boat I could not afford?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I'm not sure I understand the point. I've been on many a boat I could not afford?

Good for you!

The thing is I can afford a boat like my buddy's Formosa 46 but now that it's had time to sink in (my visit aboard), it's not the boat for me.

I cannot see me day sailing that boat whenever I pleased as a single hander, and if I did, I cannot see any excitement generated from it or most any boat that heavy and large.

36'-37' fin keel might be the cutoff for me.

This may have been last year. I sailed off anchor but there was almost no wind. Then the temp dropped in an hour and this front rolled in. It had been so hot I had on only shorts, boots (I hiked earlier in the am), and my harness as the wind came up.

It was the best part of my 4 day cruise. I cannot see the Formosa or many other big boats providing this much fun. I crossed the 15 -20 miles or so of this portion of the bay in very good time

Second video was from 45 minutes earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47neKRjRqg

[thomm225]

This Bristol 35.5 might be a nice compromise though between my present boat and the Formosa 46.

I have to have some performance. Bristol 35.5 PHRF 150

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...ol-36-2833942/

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yes but this is still sinking in.

I'm thinking I could actually get some sleep on a boat like this since it definitely will not toss, turn, roll etc like my boat does at anchor or at the dock

But that doesn't mean I have to buy a Formosa 46 or Westsail 32 but a Tartan 37 might be a good compromise and have a bit of performance

There are a lot of people who, it seems, buy a boat just for a place to put all the neat stuff they see. They buy a boat and spend a few years adding stuff, and then take off on their extended cruise and find that they don't like sailing, and all that stuff doesn't improve the experience much.

All that stuff gets in the way and adds weight and complexity. Particularly the "labor saving" geegaws.

A better approach, in my view, is to figure out how to get stuff off of your boat and spend a couple of years sailing it every week to find out what you really need.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This Bristol 35.5 might be a nice compromise though between my present boat and the Formosa 46.

I have to have some performance. Bristol 35.5 PHRF 150

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...ol-36-2833942/

You've been looking at some nice boats, Tartan, C&C, Bristol...all good.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There are a lot of people who, it seems, buy a boat just for a place to put all the neat stuff they see. They buy a boat and spend a few years adding stuff, and then take off on their extended cruise and find that they don't like sailing, and all that stuff doesn't improve the experience much.

All that stuff gets in the way and adds weight and complexity. Particularly the "labor saving" geegaws.

A better approach, in my view, is to figure out how to get stuff off of your boat and spend a couple of years sailing it every week to find out what you really need.

Good advice, thanks.

My boat has very little stuff on it, but I'm not cruising full time either which is why I'm in favor of multiple shakedown cruises.

As I mentioned on another thread, a good start (for me) would be up and down the Chesapeake Bay which is maybe 150 miles by 30 at it's widest then down 250 miles on the ICW to Morehead City where I used to live and put my boat in then back up on the outside around Cape Hatteras/Outer Banks

Also, I'm not in favor of labor saving devices. We humans of today use our bodies way to little as it is

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Good for you!

The thing is I can afford a boat like my buddy's Formosa 46 but now that it's had time to sink in (my visit aboard), it's not the boat for me.

I cannot see me day sailing that boat whenever I pleased as a single hander, and if I did, I cannot see any excitement generated from it or most any boat that heavy and large.

36'-37' fin keel might be the cutoff for me.

I don't think size is anything to do with it. I day-sail my boat all the time, single handed, just for the sake of it (especially during winter when you just take the opportunities for weather that turn up). What it is you think makes "excitement" on a boat? Leaning a lot? If you enjoy that, just put too much sail up...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

You've been looking at some nice boats, Tartan, C&C, Bristol...all good.

Like I said, before "meeting" and learning from you guys I hung with the monohull guys at my apartment's dock in Pensacola in the 1990's. (our 2 beach cats where tied down just above high water)

One guy owned a C&C 37, another a Cape Dory 30 with that aft/stern backward mounted spoke wheel, another a Tartan 30, there was a Tayana 37, Bristol 27 (which I thought was quite small at the time since it was a fixed dock and at low tide it was way down there) a Soverel 30 (which I crewed on), S2 9.1, and a Bayfield 32.

Our dock (pictured) after being rebuilt a few years after it was destroyed by Hurricane Ivan in 2004 with it's 14' -18' surge. Btw, the seawall wasn't there when I was there nor was the pool......but there were lots of single women and I was 39-45 and single! (well, a single parent)

[ferrailleur]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, sometimes I force myself to think; "ok how bad do you really want this new $3000 item? If you use it 12 times a year, 50 times in 4 years, that's $60 every time you use it." That helps to put it in perspective for me.

interesting accounting.... I was trying to figure out how much money it cost me to sail seven times a year my 27 ft Catalina.....
- one hour driving time one way to marina and back
- marina cost plus hauling out and winter storage fee
- numerous trips to marina for refitting, paint, upgrades, etc....

I figure that it costs me approx. $1,000 for each outing....
And YOU?

[hpeer]

We spend about 150 night/year on the boat. At $100/night that’s $15,000.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ferrailleur

interesting accounting.... I was trying to figure out how much money it cost me to sail seven times a year my 27 ft Catalina.....
- one hour driving time one way to marina and back
- marina cost plus hauling out and winter storage fee
- numerous trips to marina for refitting, paint, upgrades, etc....

I figure that it costs me approx. $1,000 for each outing....
And YOU?

This is why I sailed beach cats for years.

I kept the boat in the yard or at the lake 45 miles away for I believe they charged $100/year. I could keep the mast up etc so I thought it was worth the money

Then I got lucky and was transferred to Pensacola and kept my boat 70' from my apartment and 5' from the water

Now my boat is at a dock 1.5 miles from my apartment and on my way to work.

Sailing doesn't have to cost a lot but everyone's situation is different. If I was still in Memphis and sailing on the TVA Lakes of Mississippi, I'd have a 19' Lightning (or a Thistle) and I'd be racing it

Also pictured my beach cat trailer (for Hobie Cat #2) at Sardis Lake 70 miles below Memphis. My son and crew is sitting on it (1997) He's an inner city rock star coming to the country to crew on a sailboat! (Weird for him but he's 15 and has been my racing crew for 5 years)

Some of it stuck with him though. Notice the Pensacola Bay Chart on the wall here. He's practicing to play later on Bourbon Street New Orleans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ByrI6lJERY

[Nicholson58]

We stepped up from 20 foot Tornado Cat to a Camper & Nicholson 58. 40 tons, 16 beam, 400 gallons diesel, 280 gallons water, 80 mast. This is our home for three seasons in the Caribbean. Fourth starts in November. Waterline gets you hull speed. Mass can get you stability. Hampton Va. to Virgin Gorda, 1500 miles was 7.5 days. We did over 500 in a two day stretch.

The normal toys, water maker, radios, Navionics etc. are about equal for all. Sails, paint, chain, anchors haul and store add up. We plan our island hops to sail mostly. We consumed 160 gallons of diesel last year while doing Trinidad, Grenada Dominica Antigua, Martinique, Bonaire, Puerto Rico, St Martin and south back to Trinidad. Many stops in between. We see a few boats less than 30 feet. Most are upper 30s to mid 40s with a few old tubs like Roxy. Most boats are relatively old. There are occasional charter monsters over 200 feet.