Cruising boat pricing, CSY 33 in particular

[chienbizarre]

Hi,
I'm new to the Forums but have lurked a bit over the last several months.

I want to go cruising (Caribbean first) and am looking for a boat. Around 30-35 ft, < 5ft draft, but hopefully some bluewater ability in case I want to sail to the Med in a couple years. Needs to be able to handle rough conditions.
I'm pretty taken with the CSY 33 and there are a few on the market now. I'm trying to figure out how much work they will need and what kind of offer I should make. Is there a good place to go for actual selling prices on boats? Asking prices vary so much and I'm sure have little relation to what the boats actually bring.
How does the Downeast 32 compare with the CSY 33?
I really like the Downeast 38, but it's a bit big for my needs.
Thanks,
Michael, in Florida

[Pblais]

I'm pretty taken with the CSY 33 and there are a few on the market now.

We just sold ours. They are a nice boat in that you get more saloon space than most boats 40 ft. They carry a lot of stuff and are comfortable at anchor. The raised cabin make it very light below deck as the ports are large with about 6-2 head room.

They will spread a wide price range depending. They only made 59 of them. Some were custom finished and others were more plain. The hulls are solid glass and are known to have blister problems. They are worth spending money to upgrade them but can get into a fair amount if not much has been done since built. They are all pushing 30 years old so you have to survey them with great care.

CSYMan on the forum also has a CSY 33 and I know a few others that do too. You can go about any place in one. My friend Max is in Spain right now having been living aboard with his wife for the past 4 years.

You'll find the CSY 33 is more like a typical 35 - 36 ft boat. It would be comparable to perhaps a Westsail. At 15,300 lbs displacement you can get an idea about how big they are. It carries a lot of it's 11 ft beam.

[CSY Man]

CSY 33s despite the few options and the same vintage (1979 to 1981) can vary widely in price due to maintenance or lack of, and upgrades or lack of...Anywhere from $20K for a dog to $60K for a cream-puff could be reasonable. After that, spend as much as you want. Pay attention to chainplates if they have not been replaced, same with the rigging. Also look at the rudder. (I have repaired/replaced all of the above on my CSY 33, hull # 19)

As for blisters: They could get some gel-coat blisters, but never heard of serious blister damage on a CSY boat. The little gel-coat blister you can fix yourself, don't let a hungry yard talk you into an $8K strip-job.

Previous owners of my boat crossed the Atlantic twice before and after they cruised the Med for 5 years. It was a non-event.

For more info on the CSY 33, search this forum and look around in Topica.com for the CSY mailing list with the archives.

[chienbizarre]

The deal is not done but I am moving to the survey phase of purchasing a CSY33. Thanks for your recommendations. I'm sure I'll be on here more asking more questions.
Any tips on survey haulouts in Wilmington NC? So far it's $14/ft.
In Cape Canaveral it's $5.25/ft. though that's only for an hour in the lifts.

[Pblais]

$14 is the going rate these days for a real surveyor. Good luck. They are nice boats. I'll always miss ours. They ain't fast but they do have comfort.

[CSY Man]

So, which CSY 33 are ya looking at? Name or hull # ?

One of the 3 listed at YacthWorld?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

One of the 3 listed at YacthWorld?

My friend wants to look at the one in Tarpon.
Just reduced the price too.
Looks like too much work to me.
What do you think?

[chienbizarre]

Paul, you misunderstand. the $14/ft is only the haulout and pressurewash. The survey is about $20/ft on top of that. I'm starting to reconsider getting a full survey. Any recommendations on that?

CSYman, this is the boat on Yachtworld in Wilmington. It has a bunch of things it needs, but it seems to be in very good overall condition. I was hoping for a haulout to check for blisters, etc, but it's obviously much cheaper in Florida. I was considering diving to do a basic inspection of the hull, sail it to Cp Canaveral and haulout there, do bottom paint and any repairs that are needed. Sound reasonable?

The CSY 33 in Tarpon Springs does need more work, but it was raining when I looked at it so could not see with as much detail as I would have liked.

[CSY Man]

Paul, you misunderstand. the $14/ft is only the haulout and pressurewash. The survey is about $20/ft on top of that. I'm starting to reconsider getting a full survey. Any recommendations on that?

A purchase-survey has been $20.00 per foot for many years. A good investment for sure.
A quick haul-out should not run more that $300.00 or so. (Your milage may vary)

CSYman, this is the boat on Yachtworld in Wilmington. It has a bunch of things it needs, (They all do) but it seems to be in very good overall condition. I was hoping for a haulout to check for blisters, etc, but it's obviously much cheaper in Florida. I was considering diving to do a basic inspection of the hull, sail it to Cp Canaveral and haulout there, do bottom paint and any repairs that are needed. Sound reasonable?

Hmm, trying to save a few hundred bucks, but wanting to buy a $30K boat sounds like throwing good money after bad: Suffer the pain and pay for a good inspection and haul-out, if the results are good, ya have a good deal on your hands. If the boat is rotten, ya saved a bunch of money by not buying it.

The boat looks good in the ad however. Strange combo though: The deep draft and the small engine: Only the first few CSY 33s were fitted out with a 25 HP Diesel.
The factory realised soon that more HP was needed and made the Westerbeke 30 standard, although a few boats got the 51 HP Perkins.
(The factory specs only said 4 cylinder diesel, which gave CSY the option of brand, type and HP..The 25 HP however was rare..)

That being said, a few years ago I met a CSY 33 with a brand new 25 HP engine, made by Yanmar or some other big firm. The engine was obviously fitted late in life..I did participate in a survey and sea-trail of that boat...Wonder if this is the same craft?
Boat Name and/or hull number?

If indeed ya have a almost brand new diesel engine in the boat, that is good news. Just learn to live with a smaller engine...A good sailor would say yes any day. Just learn to optimize things..Keep the prop cleaner than the fat/lazy guys with a 51 HP engine, keep weight of the boat...have the prop tested, calibrated and adjusted by a modern prop-shop using computer equipment..It will give ya maximum efficency and the cost is right around $120.00..

The deep draft on this boat will make up for the smaller engine, then some.

Good luck

CM

[CSY Man]

My friend wants to look at the one in Tarpon.
Just reduced the price too.
Looks like too much work to me.
What do you think?

No thoughts yet..What is the question?

If the price is good and the boat is reasonable good...Take a look, have it surveyed, then make an offer.
(Unless your friend is an expert, then save $660.00 on the survey and go for it if the boat is good)

A serious buyer really should get a survey as the money spent will be money saved in the future X 4.

The CSY 33s have a few attention areas:
1) Rudder (Poosible water intrusion and corrosion/failure)
2) Chain plates (SS Crevice corrosion)
3) forward shelter deck scuppers (Leaks)
4) Minor gel-coat blisters, but no serious stuff.

The above could be found on any vessel of the same vintage, and in many cases much more serious than on a CSY.

Any old sailboat would of course be in need of new sails, new running and standing rigging, new wireing, new electronics, new canvas, etc.

Buy a brand new boat of the same size for $120K with a factory warranty and a fat mortgage, or buy the good old boat for $30K, then put $30 into it and go sailing for half the price.

Your choice....

[CSY Man]

CSYman, this is the boat on Yachtworld in Wilmington. It has a bunch of things it needs, but it seems to be in very good overall condition.

Ah, I just went back to the link: The boat is "Emily"..She indeed rings a bell and I have met her and the previous owner in the past.

PM me for more details.

[chienbizarre]

I agree the haulout should be about $300, but it will be more like $450. If we take it another 25 mi away I can save $2/ft. Not really worth it considering everyones time.
I'm surprised it is $200 more expensive in Wilmington, NC than Cape Canaveral, but that is what is quoted.
The boat name is Emily. I don't know the hull number.
The 25 hp Perkins is original though the owner says only 300 hours.
What is the problem with low hp?
Is it marina maneuvering, or speed against headwinds/seas, or ??

I have to admit that most of the surveys I have read have not given me great confidence. They usually say things like "not powered up, condition unknown".
I'm a mechanical engineer with a pretty good background in failure analysis. the main area I'm lacking knowledge is fiberglass, and the extensive effects of salt water corrosion on the hull and related systems. It's only a small part of the survey that really interests me, but it is an important part.

[CSY Man]

The 25 hp Perkins is original though the owner says only 300 hours.
What is the problem with low hp?
Is it marina maneuvering, or speed against headwinds/seas, or ??

Original engine from 1979 with only 300 hours..?

You ever smelled a rat?

Problem with low RPM?
Getting out of harms way is one problem.
(I go up rivers and into inlets with strong currents: 3 to 4 knots. Excess power is good. You may be in a different place)

Maneuvering is also easier with more power, but a good skipper can indeed anticipate the situation and do real well with less power.

If we take it another 25 mi away I can save $2/ft. Not really worth it considering everyones time.

Save $66.00 but running another 50 miles? (25 X 2?) The round trip would take you 10 Hours..Just to save $66.00? Yup, not worth it.

Keep me posted, I know "Emily"..If memory serves right, she sold for $41K some 5 or 6 years ago.

[chienbizarre]

CSY Man has mentioned Topica.com in several posts. When I go there it just says "..Online Marketing and Sales Solutions" and the headings:

Internet Retailers | Online Publishers | Direct Marketers | Interactive Agencies

I don't see any place to find out about boats. What am I doing wrong?

[Pblais]

Go here:

Topica Email List Directory

It's the ONLY CSY list there is and has connections to anyone that matters. If you get a CSY 33 I know at least 5 people besides the CSYman that have W's here on the Chesapeake. I probably know the one you are looking at and I think CSY man did a walk through for the buyer years ago. They only made 59 of which almost all but 2 are known to exist. One was recently discovered a few years ago in almost perfect shape. The PO never knew there was an organization and owned the boat since it was new. If they are not a wreck they are quite fixable. The hulls are beyond overbuilt. You would surly die before you drowned if you were able to crack one open.