Cruising boat pricing, CSY 33 in particular

[Pblais]

If you have questions the CSYman is also a valuable resource. He had his CSY before I did. I do miss ours and always will have fond memories. It's in Hampton now with some nice folks. They can be great boats but they can take a lot of money to get back to great condition being 30 years old. They don't come on the market that often. If you get up this way there are about 5 CSY 33's on the bay. I know they would all love to meet you. I have met or spoke with all of them and these boats seem to attract fun people.

The single cabin W's are great boats too. The extra waterline just isn't a bad idea.

We were in Deltaville last weekend. We like it down here on the fat end just fine.

[chienbizarre]

Paul, you mentioned a "good dodger" in your post. I have a gallows and I can't see a good way to get a dodger situated. Do you have any ideas? Can anyone post or send some pics of dodgers for a CSY 33?

What do you mean when you say CSY W?

[Pblais]

We did not have a gallows, but CSYMan made his without a front screen but it reaches all the way to the gallows. he decided he did not want one. he takes the approach that he is never going north of Fort Lauderdale and freeze. So far that has worked that way for him. You could get one in there. He has pictures of Rhapsody in his picture gallery. Go to Picture gallery then members then look for meber name. We had a topping lift so no gallows were needed. Ours was a not factory finsihed boat. The mast and rigging were added after the company went backrupt. You could work a dodger in and I would do that. I know my friend Max has a dodger with gallows.

You could work the strutural portion of the gallows into the dodger. If you could add a topping lift you would not require the gallows at all. You might have to rig it with blocks on the outside of the boom. You then run a line with a block from the top of the mast and run the lift line along the boom. Add a cleat near the goodsneck and you could get rid of the gallows.

Sorry about the typo "CSY W". I was refering to the CSY 37's and the spell checker decided to help me too much. If Sonny found one of those I'm sure he would like them just as much. A little extra waterline is nice.

[chienbizarre]

Someone else sent me a link to pictures of Shadowfax. Gorgeous boat. Makes me feel kinda inadequate. <g>
It has a lovely dodger and full enclosure. I was thinking I could just put some plexiglass up on the gallows and that might help quite a bit.
I do have a topping lift. In fact I don't like the gallows because if the boom is in it's slot it rests on the bimini. There is a little damage from that. I may decide to get rid of the gallows, but I need to figure out the pros and cons. What are the pros of a gallows?
I have some time. Summer on East Coast, then Bahamas for awhile so not much time in cold weather.

[Pblais]

I can't give you any pros to having gallows. Shadowfax never needed them partly because the rig was not a CSY rig. I think a better dodger would be better. The raised cabin top really does not afford much for room and I would make the dodger as high as you could. I would suggest a Bimini with sufficient stainless to support a solar panel or two and enough clearance to the boom to fit them. Work backwards from that height.

Shadowfax had one 75 watt and Rhapsody has two panels. CSYman has a beefed up insulation and claims to be able to keep beer cold almost indefinitely or at least until he drinks it all.

[sandy daugherty]

The expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" was coined by a horse trader. If you are going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a boat without getting the best survey you can find, I would like to interest you in a large number of gift horses, yours TODAY ONLY for $19.99 and three easy $10000 payments each month.....

[chienbizarre]

I have no idea what you are talking about Sandy. Certainly no gift horses were transacted by me recently.

[alambertfl]

Hello Again,
This will be the second time I type this. I am using a laptop that has an uncanny ability to delete my communication when I am about half finished. It drives me crazy because I don't know what I did wrong.
Whatever. You said you were going to be cruising the east coast this summer. Check out the Chesapeake Bay. It should keep you busy for quite some time.
Regarding Emily, I was looking at the listing photos. comparing them to the other CSY's and I noticed your interior is white, rather than the wood grained paneling look. I liked the way it looks in the photos and was wondering if it had been painted, or perhaps re-laminated? I am going to make an offer on one of the remaining boats, within the next couple of weeks if someone else doesn't purchase first. I am strongly considering Damn Yankee. There is also the one in Tarpon Springs, I think the name is Range that sounds interesting as well. Did you look at Range when you were shopping boats?
I have looked at many other boats and seem to keep returning to the CSY. If money were no object I would prefer the 37, but for my purposes the 33 will work just fine, hopefully.
For Pblais, if you are reading, I went back to the broker and he confirmed the draft as 3-11, but he said it is a full keel and not cut away. I am still wondering if I should be concerned. On one hand, the shoal draft will allow me to get to many places I would not have been able to go with my Islander Freeport and its' 5-3 draft. On the other hand, I wonder what it will be like on the open ocean? Any input would be helpful to me in deciding whether or not to purchase. So far, there are more things I like than not.
Also, the boat is sloop rigged and there is no indication that it was ever cutter rigged. I thought that was interesting after your statement that all 33's are staysail rigged. I wonder what happened?
Getting back to Emily, I think your boat looks the best of the three that were for sale. I guess I will just have to spend more money getting mine to look as good as yours. "Bring out another thousand". By the way, It was I who sent you the link to Shadowfax. Hope it proved helpful. I thought that boat looked exceptionally good. It gave me some great ideas. I hope you will keep us posted on how your adventure is going. I look forward to living the dream. Will let you know which one I purchase. Be safe.

Sonny Lambert

[Navegar41]

Hello to all!! I have just sold my present boat and searching for my next. The CSY 33 have really caught my attention. At present, there are 3 on yachtworld. Two being shoal drafts. The third, RANGER is "deep draft". I am interested in the deep draft version. I was wondering if anyone knows her or the last owners? Her condition? CSYman or Paul? Both of you are very helpful in your posting and thought you might help or even know a CSY 33 for sell by owner. Thanks... Jim

[Pblais]

I went back to the broker and he confirmed the draft as 3-11, but he said it is a full keel and not cut away. I am still wondering if I should be concerned. On one hand, the shoal draft will allow me to get to many places I would not have been able to go with my Islander Freeport and its' 5-3 draft. On the other hand, I wonder what it will be like on the open ocean? Any input would be helpful to me in deciding whether or not to purchase.

I looked on Yacht world and found Stargazer. Hull 40 laid in Oct 1979. The broker is wrong or this is not a full keeled boat. The draft I think is really 4-6 based on the look of our boat that was 5-3 this one is not cut off that much to be 3-10. CSY never made a full keeled boat and that would be wrong. You can see in the pictures the broker was an idiot. I would not let the fact the broker does not know what they are are talking about worry you. I'm sure they never sailed the boat or started the engine either so what you would expect. They should help you make arrangements to work on the deal and if they do that part right it's all you require of them. I don't have any owner info about this boat though.

In going through the CSY ads there is a lot of just plain wrong information on the specs. The 44's have a boat load of wrong information. The CSY 33 displacement is 15,300 the LOA is 33-4, the beam 11-0 and the waterline is 24.5 ft. There only was one mold. They all were cutters and the mast is located as such. Some had the inner forestay removed but I'll bet you can set where it was. Some of the fuel tankage does vary. The water is somewhere around 120 gallons and it's the same tank on all the boats but I never did get an accurate measure other than based on the number of days the Admiral took to run out of water. 120 sounds as close as I can get since I know the capacity on our current boat and of course I know the Admiral. I sure miss that water tank

Emily - This was hull 38 laid in Oct 1979. I had contact with the owner when they were about to put the boat up for sale. We had Shadowfax up for sale at the time. Emily is a good deal based on what I knew and believed then.

Range - Is hull number 1 laid in July 1978. I don't know anything else about this one.

Of the 4 boats on Yachtworld It seems they are all priced about right for the differences.

Some may require more work than others. They all will take something. The two bronze struts from the rudder post have a problem and any CSY boat where they have not been repaired should be. The struts come off the rudder post and you need to dig them out and reattach them. You then glass them back in. The rudder is solid glass as is the rest of the boat.

[Trekka]

Haven't been on this site in awhile... Hi Paul, Hi Dag!

Looking at the pix of Damn Yankee it clearly has a cutoff keel. At least a foot off, comparing it to the archives of 33 pix I've gathered over the last 3 yrs, and compared to others I've seen and photo'd. As for the dif between 3.x ft vs 4.x ft... it depends on where exactly you think the waterline is. My boat is sitting higher up than the apparent waterline (and what I painted to antifoul up to). So I think there is some variance allowed depending on that.

My water tank has 4 inspection ports. The tank is sort of a square donut, with a port at each corner. It is also contructed in 2 halves (L/R), with a small cutout between them to allow for cross flow - except on mine where that cutout did not get made! I was able to stick my digital camera down inside the ports and shoot a series of pix to document the construction and condition. They look to me like a kludge job, walling off space between the sole and the bilge to create a "tank". Where the sides meet the sole is a bit crude, with lots of caulk stuffed up in the joints. My guess on the leak mentioned is that the caulk in that seam, being quite aged now, is coming out. There's a lot of loose caulk in mine.

I haven't gotten to working on my tank much as I've been occupied refurbing other things. It's not a task I'm looking forward to. I the interim I am using jugs of water.

Btw, Range looks to me like it had the gallows removed. Hard to tell with the small pix, but looks like it to me.

--- Steve

[chienbizarre]

Sorry I have been off for a bit. I have had a 'ahem' ...fuel problem.

Sonny, the interior has been painted white. It mostly looks good, but some bits are chipped and damaged, and other parts not very well done. Should be easy to repair though and brightens it up a bit.
Not sure how it compares with original though. When I was looking at the other CSY 33s I was so focused on structural and mechanical details I didn't really notice the interior decor.

I did look at Range. She was the first CSY 33 I saw. It was a cloudy rainy day and not with the listing broker, so no starting of engine and hard to see some details. I was impressed with the space inside, but she is neglected in some ways. Leaking thru the mast/deck joints for some time w/accompanying mildew. Small leak thru port above nav station. I don't remember if there was leaking thru the hawseholes/scuppers on the sunken foredeck, but I think so.
There was cracking in the gelcoat on deck and quite a bit in the cockpit as I recall. More than Emily, I think less than the one in Jacksonville.
All sails appear in poor condition (didn't unfurl)
I think I like the club-footed staysail, but have not used one so can't be sure.
I hope that helps.

[Navegar41]

Hello to all!
Yesterday was my first visit aboard a CSY 33 and I was very impressed! Traveled to Annapolis,arrived unannouced but was invited aboard by Super-nice folks living aboard the last CSY 33 made and was given the Grand Tour! They are "heading south" when their time comes! Great plan and a great boat! Having just sold my last boat I am now searching for my next! A CSY 33!
Build like a Tank, large cockpit, secure galley, plenty of headroom and beam the CSY 33 for me is perfect! It feels great having made the decision to find one and the current prices will not brake the bank as they say!
Chienbizarre, you looked at Range that is on yachtworld, one of 4 listed. There are only two pictures in the listing do you remember if the companionway on Range is the wide version? You mentioned she is neglected. How much of a project is she? I have to the trip to Florida from Maryland to look at the 33s there and would like to have some idea of what the conditions of the 33s are in the area. I don't mind "a project" boat. Any help are this regard? Fairwinds and thanks a mil! Jim

[chienbizarre]

Range in Tarpon Springs, companionway:
I am not aware of differing companionway widths. It looks the same size as mine. 1 cubit at the bottom and nearly 2 ft wide at the top.
I have numerous pics if you want to pm me with an email address. They are kinda big though so please specify what you want to see.
She does not have the cupboards above the sink. She does not have a V drive so the engine is under the sink (I think)

[CSY Man]

Hello from Bolivia...

Paul, the draft numbers you mention looks like CSY 37 numbers.
The 33 came with either 5'0" or 3'11".
Guys with the shoal draft are not complaining although they will probably get a bit more lee-way and perhaps the boats are not as stiff.

Water tanks came in 2 sizes, one 157 gallons, the other 115. Same with fuel tanks.

The water tanks are actually the inside of the hull. Theres is some baffles inside the tank with caulking that will come loose. It needs to be cleaned up. Also, install a Sears type water filter in the bilge, easy job and makes a big difference in water taste.

What else..?

Uh, yeah the Westerbeke W30 is 30 HP and the most common engine on the 33s. I buddy boated across the gulf stream with a shoal draft and the 30 HP, we made the same time and no difference in anything, although it was not a race. The deep draft could be an advantage in crossing big oceans as the boat probably sails better, but for Bahamas type cruising the shoal draft will be just fine.

The stairs are wider on the boats with the engine under the cockpit sole. The "engine-under-the-kitchen-sink" took up more room, but freed up the space under the cockpit for a fuel tank, whereas the aft mounted engines with V-drive got the fuel tanks under the setees.
Either way, I have never met an un-happy CSY owner.

Deferred maintenance may be costly for the next owner, but that should be reflected in the price.
Lots of stuff and gear can be had for 1/2 price ofthe West Marine catalog so don't back out just because the boat needs gear.
Example: Batteries and battery chargers, and all electronics are available
out there at half price or with deep discounts. E-Bay is a good source and so is Google.

The mast location on the 33s are all the same, but the "cutter option" was $800.00 extra from the factory. Same with the keel, none had a "full" keel, they are all cutaway. Some 33s have been modified to increase directional stability, but not sure that helped any. Mast rake or lack of have been described as a cause of weather-helm. Trimming the main is important on these boats as the mast is further aft than a sloop.

All in all, they are good, sturdy boats with comfortable accomedations and I would do it over again in a hearthbeat.

Any CSY33s coming South to Florida, make sure to stop in Ft. Lauderdale and contact me so we can compare notes and drink rum...