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Old 21-06-2013, 09:34   #46
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
An app like this will use the built-in GPS of the cellphone. I'm not talking about cellular network location services, but an actual GPS receiver. Most recent iPhones, Android phones, etc, will have one. If your phone doesn't have a GPS, it's not going to work. If it does, there's no cell network required. Phone battery life may be an issue, so make sure you manage that appropriately.
Amazon.com: Bad Elf 1000 30-Pin iPod/iPhone/iPad GPS Receiver: GPS & Navigation

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Have you spent much time in Hawaii? I've had quite a few friends move there "forever". They all returned to California, including me.
Yes, sorta. Why? I went there and loved it. And that was away from the touristy and resort locations.

How come you moved? Prices?

$4.50 for a water bottle and $2.55 an apple I guess really begins getting to you.

Weather?



Okay guys, I decided to go with 5/8" 200' chain + a 44lb Rocna + triple strand 200' rode [for safer reefs or a backup anchor.] DON'T JUDGE ME!!



OVERKILL? Better than being beached as I always say.

I'm also getting a 35lb delta for the stern with an addition 50' chain and some old 100' nylon rode. Probably will rarely use it, but, hey, =]




I would like to thank the academy.

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Old 21-06-2013, 09:55   #47
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

IMHO, that's wayyy overkill and your back will not thank you.

You should size your anchoring SYSTEM

Like this:

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & SwivelsGround Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Given your discussions on other questions you've posted, you may be interested in this:

"101" Series - Quick Links to "Popular" Topics

and

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...s#.UcR4NpzfL_I
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Old 21-06-2013, 10:07   #48
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

5/8" chain is what you put on an 80 footer. Overkill is an understatement.

1/4" will do you fine.

A 44 lb Rocna is what you would see on a 40 - 45 footer. I suggest 25 lb and for sure no more than 30 lb.
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Old 21-06-2013, 11:34   #49
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

As far as price performance goes, I would consider Lewmar Horizon Claw Anchor - 33 Lbs and a lightly used small Fortress off ebay/craigslist for a lunchook. A modern anchor will hold better, but I think the $50 claw above should hold your boat well enough and usually resets itself.

A 15kg anchor on 1/4" HT in 30' of water isn't a big deal ... (33lbs anchor + 22.5lbs chain) * .87 (buoyancy of steel in saltwater) + a little mud = 48 lbs to pull up for about a minute. But if you add rope rode and anchor in deeper water, 200' of chain is a lot more than I'd want to pull up by hand. How do you plan to pull 160+lbs aboard? Going to add the weight of a windlass too?
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:04   #50
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

**WOOPS MEANT 5/16", still a good idea?!?!?!

Thank you all.


WEST MARINE
5/16" G40 Chain, 3900lb. SWL, 11,600lb. Breaking Strength, 1.09lb./ft., 550' Standard Pack
Model # 6972921



Once again, possibly saved my ass.

The reason I was going with the heavy stuff [I thought] was because a lot of authors were saying "don't go cheap on your chain, get the heaviest possible", etc.

Like I said, I may be leaving my boat for up to 2 or more days at a time if I'm hiking / camping, so a serious ground tackle system is totally required.

Okay, I've amended to go ahead and get the 1/4" chain as per recommended?!?!?!?!? UHH? Wouldn't 5/16" be the better investment?

Thanks again, and WOW that's an awesome collection of information, my eyes will surely bleed.

Thanks
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:28   #51
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

I assume the 5/8" was a typo and you meant 3/8" chain. Stick with 1/4" chain. If you want to go oversize on the anchor, something around 35# would do the trick. If the figures are correct that you sent, you are proposing an anchoring system for a boat 6 times the displacement of your boat. Totally unneeded and the weight penalty will seriously affect your boat's performance. We used your proposed anchor set up on our 20,000 pound plus boat for well over a year with a lot of that in Hawaii and never had an issue. That included a tropical depression with 50k winds. Be realistic about your anchor system. Think you are going to come regret it if you go your proposed overkill set up.

FWIW, used to be death on electric windlasses. The problems if they failed and a relative fast and super reliable Moritz manual windlass were all I thought I'd ever want. One day watched a 30,000# boat with a couple on board sail into the lagoon and drop their hook, hop in the water, snorkel around, climb back aboard, hoist the hook, move a few hundred yards and repeat. They did this about 5 times in one afternoon. Talked with them afterwards and asked why they moved so much when they came in. Said they were just looking for good dive spots. It was so easy to for them to hoist the anchor with an electric windlass that they used their big yacht much like a dinghy, changing locations on a whim because it was so easy. Even though our manual windlass was a good set up, it was still a lot of work to hoist the anchor so we tended to stay put for awhile once the anchor was down. It kept us from getting farther afield and exploring a wider range of anchorages. With your proposed set up, you'll not want to hoist that anchor even with a hurricane is approaching.

We dropped the hook in Keauhou Bay, Kona 34 years ago. Didn't intend to stay but time just kept ticking away and after 6 years or so, thought it was time to sell our stored items on the mainland. Don't think we'll ever change our residency. Having said that, you've got to want to live in the Islands to stay here. Have watched a lot of people come and go over those years. Still have our group of friends that we met or knew before we got here but that isn't a lot. Dealing with the powers that be can be frustrating but, if you learn to look at things in their perspective, work arounds are almost always there. The Paradise Tax is burdensome with milk costing $4.00 a gallon and most mainland food items at a premium. Thank heavens for Express Mail as the guys in Brown are a total rip off for shipping. But fresh out of the ocean fish is often free or a dollar or two a pound or less, Avocados grow on trees in our yard as does papaya, mango, banana, citrus, etc. Hey, we've even got Costco which has been a big help in keeping costs under control. Taxes are actually quite low for us. Property tax is barely over $1,000 a year and excise tax only 4%. Income tax is high but pensions are exempt from taxation. Boat slips are as rare as hens teeth but am paying only $175 a month for our 35' boat. Then there are the people, have made many friends and thoroughly enjoyed our time. Other than the few irritations from mostly mainland transplants, have had nothing to complain about.

Oh, and there is the weather. Never too hot, cold, rainy, or whatever. Know it's always going to be warmer than 70 degrees and never hotter than 90 and almost always 5 degrees below that. Sunshine is never more than a day or two away no matter how bad the weather and often just a few miles drive or sail away if we really need to see the sun. No matter the season, there is always at least 12 hours of sunlight, a blessing for us who are SADS sufferers. Like anywhere, it's got it's issues but they far outweigh the positives for us.
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:53   #52
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOMN View Post
**WOOPS MEANT 5/16", still a good idea?!?!?!

Thank you all.

WEST MARINE
5/16" G40 Chain, 3900lb. SWL, 11,600lb. Breaking Strength, 1.09lb./ft., 550' Standard Pack
Model # 6972921

Once again, possibly saved my ass.
The reason I was going with the heavy stuff [I thought] was because a lot of authors were saying "don't go cheap on your chain, get the heaviest possible", etc.

Like I said, I may be leaving my boat for up to 2 or more days at a time if I'm hiking / camping, so a serious ground tackle system is totally required.

Okay, I've amended to go ahead and get the 1/4" chain as per recommended?!?!?!?!? UHH? Wouldn't 5/16" be the better investment?

Thanks again, and WOW that's an awesome collection of information, my eyes will surely bleed.

Thanks
The issues with anchoring in the few 'year around' anchorages like Kailua Kona or Ka'anapali/Lahaina Maui is mostly the winter waves. The seas will be relatively benign but almost never flat except for the very occasional Kona storm. It's always chafed rope mooring lines or anchor rodes and/or being in the surf break line that bring boats to grief on the shore. Even the big winter swells are ridden out every year by boats anchored outside the wave break line. For the casual cruiser, that's too far out and in too deep water. Not impossible depths or distance just farther out than most people chose to be. If you take the precaution of anchoring in 50' or maybe even somewhat less depth, you should survive any bad weather/waves that come along. Given a 4-1 scope, that's at least 200' of chain. Personally, would want at least 250' to get better scope. Believe there is a formula for depth and breaking waves, someone may be able to pipe in with that.

Having said that, it will seldom be comfortable, at least in Kona, anchored out. Kailua Bay was, by far, the rolliest anchorage I've found anywhere. The Lahaina/Ka'anapali coast may be better but virtually never flat. After a couple of summer months in Kailua Bay, we had green stuff growing 2' up our topsides from the rolling. You can live with it, we did, but it's not ideal conditions.
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Old 21-06-2013, 13:59   #53
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

I'm assuming this boat has a manual windlass. The other posters are spot on, hauling 200ft of 5/16" chain by hand would be one serious chore. When I was last in Hawaii my boat displaced 38,000lb loaded and it anchored just fine with 5/16" G4 and a 45lb CQR. Everywhere I went was sand.
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Old 21-06-2013, 17:09   #54
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get a 33 pound
Delta on the bow, a good size fortress on the stern and a Bruce for the lazarett.
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Old 21-06-2013, 18:41   #55
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

I thought Bruce were like the oldest worst anchors ever?

Okay, so 200' of 1/4 or 5/16? Is it OKAY to slap down 200' of nylon on top of 200' of chain, or is that asking for chafe woes?!

And thanks for the freakin sweet tips about touring hawaii guys.







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Old 21-06-2013, 18:57   #56
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

Personally I hate a bruce and they arnt any good herein my home port.
but some cruisers that have frequented the islands in question have recommended the bruce to you.
I recently gave 2 bruce anchors away.
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Old 21-06-2013, 19:13   #57
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

You should all feel sorry for poor bruce. He gets to spend his entire Hawaiian vacation locked up in a lazarette.
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Old 21-06-2013, 20:09   #58
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

Nomn, according to my West Marine catalog 200 feet of 5/16 g40 is 220 lbs, and 200 feet of 1/4 g 40 is 150 lbs. A 70 lb difference can be hard on your back. For a given length of chain (say 200 feet) the extra weight of 5/16 over the weight of 1/4 will not improve your holding power as much as putting some of that weight into the anchor. You are already talking about a heavy enough anchor for a 26 foot boat, and saving 70 lbs could save you from a sore back. One of the most important things about anchoring with all chain is using a snubber (sp?) and being very careful about chafe. There are multiple threads about snubbers to learn from, but if you dont use a snubber , and your boat ends up pitching, you can pull cleats out of your deck, or rip your windlass loose, or worst case is you can break your chain(very unusual). You should also attach the bitter end of the chain with a hunk of nylon, just long enough for the nylon to reach the deck, so that if you ever have to slip your rode, you can cut the nylon rather than go below decks trying to undo a rusty shackle. I know that you are being hit with a lot of new terminology, but you sound like you want to learn. Best Of Luck to you____Grant.
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Old 21-06-2013, 22:09   #59
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How many feet of chain?!

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Nomn, according to my West Marine catalog 200 feet of 5/16 g40 is 220 lbs, and 200 feet of 1/4 g 40 is 150 lbs. A 70 lb difference can be hard on your back. For a given length of chain (say 200 feet) the extra weight of 5/16 over the weight of 1/4 will not improve your holding power as much as putting some of that weight into the anchor. You are already talking about a heavy enough anchor for a 26 foot boat, and saving 70 lbs could save you from a sore back. One of the most important things about anchoring with all chain is using a snubber (sp?) and being very careful about chafe. There are multiple threads about snubbers to learn from, but if you dont use a snubber , and your boat ends up pitching, you can pull cleats out of your deck, or rip your windlass loose, or worst case is you can break your chain(very unusual). You should also attach the bitter end of the chain with a hunk of nylon, just long enough for the nylon to reach the deck, so that if you ever have to slip your rode, you can cut the nylon rather than go below decks trying to undo a rusty shackle. I know that you are being hit with a lot of new terminology, but you sound like you want to learn. Best Of Luck to you____Grant.
I'm soaking it up like a sponge. So 1/4" has enough holding power and strength to not break in a heavy blow?

LOVE.
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Old 21-06-2013, 22:36   #60
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

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Yes, sorta. Why? I went there and loved it. And that was away from the touristy and resort locations.

How come you moved? Prices?
My wife is 1/4th Chinese. You'd barely notice but they're really tuned into that stuff there. They absolutely HATED us because I'm white.
At the auto parts store, I was the last guy in line for however long it took to run out of brown and asian guys.
When a local guy without insurance crashed into our car, the cop wadded up his report and threw it away when he learned that my wife was married to a white guy.
My neighbor's kid, a local guy, got beat up because he scored well on tests.
My friend's kid was always bruised up because he was white.

The majority of the population will steal anything they get their hands on. My boss, my co-workers, my neighbors all stole from me.
Fighting is completely acceptable behavior.
Not a happy place.
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