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Old 16-06-2013, 14:42   #16
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Hawaii isn't that great for cruising. Anchorages are limited. There will be one good anchorage on each island and one or two lesser anchorages scattered around. Goods are transferred via barge so each island needs a commercial port. Often on the windward side and man made with riprap forming a barrier to the sea. There is usually room to anchor inside the seawall.

Wind and sea state around the islands is not for the feint of heart.

Most images online of sailing in Hawaii lead you to think that it's calm sailing. That's because people only take pictures when things are pretty. Not many will bring a camera topside when it's blowing stink. It's a little too busy just to maintain while singlehanding. No time for photos. Those images only remain in the mind, never to be shared.

Have you thought of going to Mexico first? Sea of Cortez (Gulfo de California). Plenty of americans, supplies and calm anchorages within daysail distances of each other. The trip down and time spent along the coast could be good practice before going to HI. A lot of people going across the pacific do Mexico first just to get acclimated. Leave Oct-Nov to MX and on to HI in April-May after the pacific high develops.

Inter island sailing in HI can easily be an overnight proposition and not relaxing. Do you have experience sailing in overpowering conditions? If you don't know your boat in 30kt+ and done well repeatedly, please reconsider. You can find shitty conditions in the Sea of Cortez without too much trouble, and plenty of calm time between to recover.

For anchors, 200 feet of chain is not practical. Your boat doesn't have the capacity to carry that much weight without giving up something else.

50ft of 1/4" high test is fine (less weight and bulk than 5/16) and add on good quality 3/8 3strand anchor line. Bring two anchors minimum or three anchors is better (sometimes one must be sacrificed). I buy the "traditional" style anchors at a WM for around $40 each. I carry two along with a 35 pound Suncor cqr galvanized knock off. I see one at jamestown for $200 online. The cqr is too heavy to leave on the roller full time but can be brought up when needed. Very heavy for the loads you'd experience. Had a hard time getting the anchor to chain shackle figured out. The anchor was too large for the 1/4" chain but the closest thing to an engine block I could carry.

In MX I used the danforth style exclusively except for two anchorages; one grassy and one covered in shells/small rock.

In HI I used the cqr just to avoid the worry of dragging while I went to town.

Please learn which anchor to use where. A lot of cruisers have plows on the roller because a lot of cruisers have plows on the rollers.

Beware groupthink. A small boat anchoring in sand might do well with a fluke anchor. What works for the big boat folks is what works for them. If they haven't cruised in a small boat, maybe take the advice with a grain of salt.

Your boat does not present as much windage as a larger boat so the loads will not be too bad.

Look online for a windage calculator. Some anchor suppliers will have them on their sites. You enter beam, length, freeboard and get an idea of the loads at different wind speeds.

I went to HI in a boat lighter than yours and did fine. I also spent several years practicing in conditions and overnight/long weekends for a couple of years before going out. Time for practice is helpful.

Where are you located? If you're in SoCal, Minnies is a great place to shop and save money.

Seriously reconsider your plan to head straight to HI.
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Old 16-06-2013, 15:06   #17
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

This will give you an idea of what to expect.

Amazon.com: Cruising Guide to the Hawaiian Islands eBook: Bob Mehaffy, Carolyn Mehaffy: Kindle Store
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Old 16-06-2013, 15:46   #18
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

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Originally Posted by NOMN View Post
Thanks man. I guess I just have more reading to do.

Would something like this be okay?:[the 13lb option]-

WEST MARINE Traditional Anchor & Rode Packages at West Marine
No way. Danforths are ok IF there is never a wind shift and you don't like to sleep at night. I use a 22 lb Bruce for my CD 25D. You need at least a 22-30 lb anchor for your 26D, and better if it's NOT a danforth. Look at the new gen of anchors or a Bruce. Good luck,especially with the anchoring. Lots of info here Google
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Old 16-06-2013, 16:15   #19
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Read these, then buy a book on anchoring:

Anchoring 101 Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important

Anchor Selection 101 includes good discussions of various system selections and pictures of new generation anchors on bowsprits both short and extended Roll bar anchors on bow roller

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & SwivelsGround Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels
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Old 16-06-2013, 17:49   #20
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

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Originally Posted by scotty c-m View Post
Nonm,

Nice to hear about your proposed adventure! Go for it! I happened to catch your questions about radar on another thread, and now your anchoring questions. It seems that you are at the beginning of your learning curve. Hope I said that politely. Are you in the Islands now? If so, find some local information. Your blog says you're in Venice. How are you getting to Hawaii? Yes, anchoring is a very good option, but there may be other options including docking and mooring that you might explore. My point is, that in a big adventure, like what you're talking about, there are lots of details to learn. Take your time and enjoy the process, and keep an open mind about your plans. Local knowledge about a place like Hawaii will really help. Keep asking questions, like you're doing on this thread. Hang out at the dock and meet lots of people and learn things from all of them. Even a broken watch is right twice a day!! Sail the heck out of that cool boat (the Cape Dory is a GREAT boat). Dream big, and live large.
Thanks *_*

Thanks so much guys!!

I had no idea what to type into Google.

I will keep you all posted. DD
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Old 16-06-2013, 18:29   #21
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Oh my gosh, I can't edit, I was going to say I [think] decided on a 35lb Lewmar CQR, 5/16" 100' of hot dipped galvanized chain [at 1.09 pound a foot], and a 200' 5/8" three strand premium anchor line. Then a 50' chain [same chain] with another 200' rode [same 5/8"] for a second fortress anchor. Isn't two better than one? Can I REALLY depend on one main anchor for dragging, I'm going to be leaving the boat alone all day and be sleeping at night?!! If I wash on the beach or coral reefs - I'm totally screwed. This is my life investment ((((.

Are these both "fortress" type anchors:

TIE DOWN ENGINEERING Traditional Anchors at West Marine

FORTRESS ANCHORS Anchor at West Marine

Can't really decide which would be better.

There's also a Bruce anchor on there [standard] with what I guess to be a 50' small chain, maybe 1/4, and about a 150-200' ~3/8" rode. Heck, I almost want to row and toss out all three. Wise?! Safer!??
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Old 16-06-2013, 19:19   #22
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

In my Columbia 26, had a Danforth about 15 pounds with a short length of chain and the rest rope. It worked fine for short term intermittant anchoring.

If you are planning on hanging on the hook for anything more than an occasional day or two, I'd go with as much chain as you can afford or carry but in no case less than a 100'. The lava and coral will eat a rope rode on short chain fairly quickly. The water is warm and usually clear so dive your anchor every time you set it. You'll be able to see any hazards that may be down there and move the anchor to a sandy patch if necessary. Be sure the rope/chain joint is off the bottom if you're using composite rode.

For your boat, 1/4" schedule 40 chain should be more than strong enough.
since you'll probably be handing the rode, would go with a minimum of 1/2" brait to make it easy on your hands. I'm using 5/16" on my 13,000# boat. 1/4" chain is fairly light and not that costly so you should be able to afford the weight and expense. A 20H Danforth or 16 Fortress should be adequate but they are prone to bending the flukes if they hang up on the lava and don't reset well if the direction of pull changes. Hate the Danforth anchor for schlepping around the deck as hinged flukes are always biting my fingers taking chunks out of the gel coat.. I'd go with a 10 kilo Manson Supreme or similar design anchor if I was buying new. These inverted plow anchors just work better in a wide variety of bottoms than most any other anchor type. A Delta would be my second choice. The Bruce and CQR will also work but are not my favorite anchors. Don't like the hinge on the CQR as it makes it difficult to muscle around and needs to be heavier to equal the holding of Manson. The Bruce doesn't have much penetrating power on a grassy or hard bottom. Not an issue in the Tropics but elsewhere. Whatever anchor you get, it doesn't hurt, except your back, to go bigger and heavier as I assume you'll be raising it by hand.

Mount an anchor roller. Much less chafe and way easier to pull up chain over a roller and way less trauma to your topsides from the anchor.

Multiple anchors aren't necessary and you'll end up with a tangled mess after a couple of days at anchor. You should have a backup anchor and rode to use if necessary, however. Danforth pattern anchor seem to be available used at the drop of a hat if you want to save money. Have one I'll sell with rope rode and chain if you're interested. Take a look at Craigs List to find used.

We anchored our 20,000# boat with a 45# CQR on 230' of 3/8" BBB chain 24/7 for a year and a half in French Polynesia and Hawaii. One anchor worked fine. The key is keeping it attached to the boat and all chain is the solution to that and the anchor being large enough in the first place.
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Old 16-06-2013, 21:37   #23
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Quote:
Whatever anchor you get, it doesn't hurt, except your back, to go bigger and heavier as I assume you'll be raising it by hand.
Yeah, that's me.

Quote:
One anchor worked fine. The key is keeping it attached to the boat and all chain is the solution to that and the anchor being large enough in the first place.
How large are we talking for a 26' 6000lb sailboat?

Should I go with a Rocna or a Manson? I mean, essentially they're the same thing right?!

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...6#.Ub6FsPm1FMA

ARE YOU SURE one anchor will be enough with 100' chain + 200' rode? I'm just... so skeptical. I mean, it's like a 20-40 lb item, I wouldn't mind casting out two if it's safer. But I'd also like to save the cash, but I also would like to be safe. Can a boat in rough winter hawaiian water conditions really be secure and not move on a single Rocna/Manson type anchor?

Here's a silly idea: What if I Y-Splice [TWO] anchors on one long line of chain? Will they just cancel eachother out?! Is that better? I'm going to be away from the boat in rough seas all day!
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Old 16-06-2013, 22:04   #24
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Cruising Hawaii

Here is some info.

There is probably a lot of areas where you can't anchor and have to use a mooring.
Maui Moorings - Maui Mooring Pictures, Mooring Installation Gallery, Manta Mooring Gallery

And of course you always hear about the problems.
Trouble in Lahaina - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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Old 16-06-2013, 22:51   #25
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Having cruised a 26 foot, 5400lb boat(Contessa) for close to 3 years, I will say that 95% of your anchoring will be to a single hook, so you want it to be the best that is practical for your boat. My boat came equipped with 180 foot of 5/16 chain and a 25lb CQR. After I hurt my back a couple of times in deep anchorages, I installed a windlass and loved it. I also made a very good bow roller, so that handling was easy. I slept good at night with what was considered over size gear. I also carried a 13S Danforth with 20 feet of chain and 200 feet of 1/2 inch 3 strand rode, and a 12lb imitation Danforth with the same amount of chain and rode. If you come into an anchorage where everyone has a stern anchor out to keep the bow into the swell, you will need to do the same or have angry neighbors. A few times I had all 3 anchors out in a spread when a big blow was expected, but that was not normal. Nylon has a very important place in anchoring, but since you cant always arrive in the day time or in clear water, depending on diving to make sure your nylon isnt around a coral head is not always practical. When your boat and maybe your life depend on anchoring, all chain is the better solution. This is all just my 2 cents worth._____Grant.
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Old 17-06-2013, 00:10   #26
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

In no way should you consider anchoring out over the winter unless you are willing to risk losing the boat. Lahaina and Kaanapali Coast and Kailua-Kona Bay are usually safe but rolly. Unfortunately, summer and winter they can turn into exposed anchorages with 20' waves in very short time. Summer time is usually pretty benign but occasionally Kona Winds and Southern Ocean storms can make the anchorage untneable. In the winter time, large waves roll in regularly from storms in the North Pacific. There is a reason that Hawaii is noted for its surf. If you are thinking about hanging out at anchor, be ready to never be more than an hour from your boat at any time. Have seen conditions go from flat to 6' in less than an hour. Lahaina and Kailua-Kona end up with beached boats almost every year when the waves kick up in the winter.

You can get a 3 month temporary slip in a calendar year in a State Marina, space permitting. You get a slip in October for your 3 months in one year and then stay through March for the following year. Always have a boat or two spending the winter here at Honokohau Harbor, Kona for the winter. That gets you through the worst wave conditions and you can move onto another State Marina for a month or two to get you back to the relatively benign summer months or head out for other destinations. That's what I planned to do when I brought the boat over. Spent August and September either in Hilo Bay or anchored out along the coast when conditions permitted then moved to Honokohau in October. Got a deal on a slip so didn't have to leave after my six months were up.

One anchor, 25-35 pounds should be fine especially if it's a Rocna Supreme. Either Rocna, Manson or Spade will work fine, whichever you can get the best deal on. I like the sliding channel for the shackle on the Manson but others hate it. Rocna moved their production to China and ended up with low quality steel that bent easily. They have corrected the problem and those anchors should be out of the supply chain but might want to check to be sure.

Where is the boat now??? If it's on the mainland, you could buy a barrel of chain if you could find someone to split it with you and save big bucks. Or buy a barrel and put an ad in Craigs list to sell off what you didn't use. 1/4" G40 would be the size I'd go for for your relatively small boat.
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Old 17-06-2013, 01:12   #27
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

My 2 cents worth

- Bow roller is very important.
- Powered anchor winch/capstan very handy and best to be able to control from helm or remote, can live without this on your boat though.
- 200 ft is bare minimum all chain in my experience if you are going any where there is coral, rock and sharp stuff. I would go at least 250 feet for coral.
- I would highly recommend an extra 100 ft of of chain stored next to keel and strong shackles to attach to 200ft chain when needed for deep anchorage or strong winds...
- If going anywhere near coral don't use rope/nylon rode.
- Use a snubber.
- Let out plenty of scope 5:1 probably good standard.
- Watch for boats already anchored that have right of way.
- Dive on the anchor to check setting and obstructions if you can.
- Carry spare anchor for kedging or stern anchor used rarely but kept handy and ready for instant deployment in emergency like running aground etc.
- Absolutely forget silly ideas of deploying two or more anchors off the bow, one good anchor and LOTS of chain.
-If you are dragging you let out more chain. If you can't let out more chain you get out of there.
- At night set up an anchor watch alarm on your plotter or through gps app on your phone, in a blow keep an eye on things, if its really bad have crew do shifts on watch.
- As you enter the anchorage keep a track on your plotter and save it for when you leave especially handy at night in emergencies.
- If adventuring on land keep eye on weather and return to boat if big blow expected.
- When at sea make sure anchor is very well secured or stored safely below on your boat to keep weight off the bow.

Either go down to Mexico or Caribbean instead to gain experience.
Chuck all gear/crap you don't need off - think minimalist you have to go light.
Have some shade to protect you from tropical sun.
Take fish trolling lines and lures for catching your dinner.

Sounds like an exciting adventure for you.

Good Luck.
Anthony.
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Old 17-06-2013, 13:01   #28
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Where you plan to anchor you'll need at least 200' of chain. We do not have primarily sandy/muddy bottoms around the Big Island. We are too new geologically and not ringed by a reef. There are rocks and coral in a lot of the places you'll want to anchor. Nylon line can be cut in a matter of minutes in the wrong type of weather.

Check NOAA Charts of the Hawaiian Islands. Look at the anchorages.

If you set 3 anchors your anchor rodes will twist around into knots and you may not be able to retrieve them. Your idea of two anchors on a chain rode is not a bad one but won't be necessary in 95% of your anchorages.

kind regards,
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Old 17-06-2013, 13:04   #29
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

Pacific Coast NOAA Nautical Charts Check the Hawaiian Charts starting with 19000.
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Old 17-06-2013, 13:52   #30
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Re: Cruising around Hawaii - How mant feet of chain?!

I'm on it, you guys are amazing thank you!

I can't wait to set off and go! I'm going to blog a lot, and give back to this community.

I just have SO MUCH to learn right now, it's astounding!
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