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Old 25-06-2019, 11:36   #1
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Cruising a Freedom 44?

Been looking to move up to a live abord. Found listings for Freedom 40s and 44 cat ketchs. Does anyone have any input on suitability of these for US eastcoast / Bahama Cruising in these? Pros and Cons of stayless mast set ups. I currently sail a Nonsuch 30 Cat rig. Only drawback I have found so far is unbalaced rig when reefed, but the cat ketch setup would solve that. Any info apreciated.
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Old 25-06-2019, 12:21   #2
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

If you have a Nonsuch, then you are essentially the expert here; regards unstayed rigs.

I've seen a few 40s and 44s out cruising, the shallow draft of the 40 is great for the Bahamas, and I don't know of any real downsides to a ketch, for cruisers. There are some downsides to ketches for racing, but cruising... it would be my preference.

I think either of those boats would serve you well.

Cheers.
Paul.
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Old 25-06-2019, 12:40   #3
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

I like them. Will they point into the winds like local racer? No. Will most heavy cruising boats? NO. Nice shallow draft for east coast and Bahamas too.
Watch out for the cored hulls though. Inspect extremely well.
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Old 25-06-2019, 16:54   #4
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

We met one Freedom 40 in the South Pacific who was happy with his boat after several years cruising in her. However, after the first little while on board he had spent quite a lot of money converting the luff sleeve and wishbone booms sails to conventional track and slides and boom. Said she sailed much better to windward and reefing was far easier.

No personal judgement implied... just second hand info!

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Old 25-06-2019, 17:51   #5
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbone 1 View Post
Been looking to move up to a live abord. Found listings for Freedom 40s and 44 cat ketchs. Does anyone have any input on suitability of these for US eastcoast / Bahama Cruising in these? Pros and Cons of stayless mast set ups. I currently sail a Nonsuch 30 Cat rig. Only drawback I have found so far is unbalaced rig when reefed, but the cat ketch setup would solve that. Any info apreciated.
Check Freedomychts.org Lots of info and advice there. I know of a couple of permanent live aboard on F40 CKs. spacious, comfortable boats.
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Old 25-06-2019, 19:53   #6
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

I don't have any knowledge or experience about the F40 or F44s, but I can't say enough about my F38. It's a 31-year-old boat with the typical issues but she's solidly built and I love how she sails. Super sturdy in big wind and very easy to singlehand.
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Old 26-06-2019, 09:27   #7
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

I think it is the balsa core deck which is the problem (rather than hull), generally because of careless installation of hardware or hardening of existing compound.
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Old 26-06-2019, 10:07   #8
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

Agree with "Gamayun"....we cruised 10 years on our 1995 F45 CC throughout the Caribbean. In the water the whole time....when hauled no issues with hull.
Not the same year but essentially the same construction and factory...Middleton, R. I.
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Old 26-06-2019, 10:07   #9
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

Sea kindly boat, especially comfortable down wind. Unfortunately poor going to windward. Not a lot space interior wise, my wife stepped on it and stepped off it, so I sold it.
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Old 26-06-2019, 10:27   #10
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

I suggest joining www.freedomyachts.org
There you will find the true Freedom experts.
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Old 26-06-2019, 10:55   #11
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

Jim's observation is interesting! Since we KNOW both empirically and theoretically that it is the laminar airflow on the leeward side of the sail that drives the boat when it is on the wind, just like it is the UPPER surface of an airplane's wing that carries the weight, we cannot expect a sail on a FAT, unstayed mast to drive as well as does a sail on a conventional SLENDER, stayed mast. The fat mast deprives the airflow of the opportunity to go laminar on the forward third of the cord of the sail.

The reason "gennies" are so useful on the wind (and therefore popular) is that being hanked to a slender wire, their leading edges do not deny or destroy laminar flow on the leading 1/3 of their cords. Introduce roller furling and you pay for the alleged advantages of this type of furling with a reduction in aerodynamic efficiency. That trade off is acceptable to many people.

Sailboats, as we know, are compromises. For modern cruising boats, the "iron jib" has a lot to recommend it :-). Nevertheless, to deliberately design a boat, say, the "Freedom" range of boats, with an inefficient rig just to obtain "product differentiation", is a marketing ploy that I, for one, would never buy into, when there are so many boats on the market that don't offend against common sense deriving from long practise and observation.

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Old 26-06-2019, 12:33   #12
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

A Freedom 40 or 44 would be a great Bahamas boat, and properly kitted out a great trade wind circumnavigator.

I have substantial experience with cat ketches using unstayed masts and wishbone or sprit rigs. This my favorite rig for cruising. Once you learn it abilities you may just be hooked.

As these boats age it is critical to get a surveyor qualified to inspect the masts and support systems.
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Old 26-06-2019, 12:50   #13
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Jim's observation is interesting! Since we KNOW both empirically and theoretically that it is the laminar airflow on the leeward side of the sail that drives the boat when it is on the wind, just like it is the UPPER surface of an airplane's wing that carries the weight, we cannot expect a sail on a FAT, unstayed mast to drive as well as does a sail on a conventional SLENDER, stayed mast. The fat mast deprives the airflow of the opportunity to go laminar on the forward third of the cord of the sail.

The reason "gennies" are so useful on the wind (and therefore popular) is that being hanked to a slender wire, their leading edges do not deny or destroy laminar flow on the leading 1/3 of their cords. Introduce roller furling and you pay for the alleged advantages of this type of furling with a reduction in aerodynamic efficiency. That trade off is acceptable to many people.

Sailboats, as we know, are compromises. For modern cruising boats, the "iron jib" has a lot to recommend it :-). Nevertheless, to deliberately design a boat, say, the "Freedom" range of boats, with an inefficient rig just to obtain "product differentiation", is a marketing ploy that I, for one, would never buy into, when there are so many boats on the market that don't offend against common sense deriving from long practise and observation.

TrentePieds
My old boat a Freedom 32 went to windward just fine, fat mast an all.

https://youtu.be/v3VZB3yH5o0
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Old 26-06-2019, 14:56   #14
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

You might check with CF member Freedom45. They did a lot of S. Pacific cruising on a Freedom.
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Old 26-06-2019, 17:05   #15
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Re: Cruising a Freedom 44?

Thanks for all the info. Ill keep learning to sail my nonsuch and looking for the liveaboard.
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