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Old 24-10-2010, 02:33   #61
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Request for sites:

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And, just for kicks (and prejudices), here is their link for an Amel in Thailand that my guess can be bought within your budget:

Pippen Marine

My research hasnt really shown asia to be that cheap for yachts (strangely). I would have thought there may have been a lot of broken dreams for sale. Unless, these are massively inflated prices and we are expected to barter like we do for pirate DVD and Tshirts.

Cheers
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Old 24-10-2010, 02:56   #62
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Second hand always ='s a Barter...
In today's climate you could probably extend that philosophy to new boats as well...
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Old 24-10-2010, 04:35   #63
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BOAT-BUSTERS!!....??

Seems many of the components are from big brand names anyway...

I guess if you're handy enough to put it together and install it in the first place,
Granted, Vic. But the Original Posters are NOT handy enough (no offense to them):
Quote:
We are not particularly experienced sailors; me- dad's wooden dinghy and several years of twilights mostly on 30's plus a couple of seasons on a pocket maxi. Him - several weeks bareboat chartering with mates in
They are after a cruise-ready Hunter, Bene or Jeneau and everyone here wants them to build a f@#$%& boat from scratch!!!!

These people obviously want a type of thing and we are all hurding off in tangents away from what their hearts desire when we could be far more helpful by listening to them instead of dictating to them.

You might be able to build one from bits and pieces, but I wouldn't be able to assist a propper installer by passing him the correct screw driver.

In all the places we have dropped the pick amongst those 'out there doing it' there are 3 things on boats that are always/often/usually broke.... Watermakers, Generators, Freezers.
So one can do without those 3 things, or, imho, buy the most reliable and have it put in by a non-F'witt. I am currently doing without all 3

Of all the hells I could be in one would be to have $5,000 worth of parts spread about Sea Life and a big hole where they need to be shoved in a certain order.

The one worse, I was on a boat the other night... the engine is spread from one end of the boat to another.... and not a cent in their bank account. Thats the other type of hell!



**Touch wood!**



Mark
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Old 24-10-2010, 12:28   #64
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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
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"And, just for kicks (and prejudices), here is their link for an Amel in Thailand that my guess can be bought within your budget:





My research hasnt really shown asia to be that cheap for yachts (strangely). I would have thought there may have been a lot of broken dreams for sale. Unless, these are massively inflated prices and we are expected to barter like we do for pirate DVD and Tshirts.

Cheers
Oz
When you start looking at high end boats like the Amel I agree. (Yes, I respect the Amels; one of the few big recreational boats with watertight bulkheads and engine room). It doesn’t matter where in the world these boats are no one is going to give them away unless they are entirely desperate to sell. Basically, you can be lucky and score a bargain - and for that matter a lemon - almost anywhere. Even over here the prices of some high end boats I have been admiring have been drastically reduced due the slow market.

Then when you are looking at a bargain “fixer-upper” by the time you get it over here it is amazing how much it could really cost you and what can actually happen. This is why I was glad I bought my first real boat from only around 2000 Km up the Australian coast. It was a real learning curve in everything from out-fitting, navigation (we don’t have 5m tides down here!), mechanics, rigging, aging sails and misadventure resulting in a quickly disappearing budget.

The real reason I did it was the adventure. My thoughts were if I bought a boat locally it would just end up like the hundreds of others permanently sitting at their moorings keeping insurance premiums down for us who really like being at sea. Likewise, I had already had a share in a smaller boat and after working fishing and on dinner boats was getting tired of my local waterways and ports. At the end of the day I got what I was asking for and I am really glad I took my time to find an extremely solid and seaworthy little boat. I have read a number of accounts of people attempting similar along the Australian coast over the last decade perishing at sea.

Admittedly I would do it again. One reason might be that “that” boat I had spent years looking for just happened to turn up at the right price overseas. I might be new to sailing, but I have spent a long time pondering boat construction. For the very same reasons there might be just as big a chance that I might build my next boat. In the meantime, I will just be doing my research and getting my sea time up so I can sort out the garbage from the gold. One thing I do know is that I won’t be going to China to buy a stuffed kangaroo!
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Old 24-10-2010, 12:48   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Granted, Vic. But the Original Posters are NOT handy enough (no offense to them):


They are after a cruise-ready Hunter, Bene or Jeneau and everyone here wants them to build a f@#$%& boat from scratch!!!!

These people obviously want a type of thing and we are all hurding off in tangents away from what their hearts desire when we could be far more helpful by listening to them instead of dictating to them.

Mark

Noting most threads seem to go off on tangents and it is so rare for anyone to answer the exact question as if they were writing an academic essay or answering an exam? It is amazing how many other threads I have observed to deteriorate into personal conversations. At least with this type of question there are real options, and financial and safety concerns that contentious posters might feel obliged to disclose? Then as above, “I won’t be going to China to buy a stuffed kangaroo” and definitely do not wish the same on others.
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Old 24-10-2010, 14:41   #66
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My beneteau 411 did that leg before I bought it. Previous owners decked it out for their pacific crossing as follows:
2x210AH AGM batteries
2 x 100W solar
Kiss wind generator
Good nav systems with redundancy
500L of internal water (normal tanks) with extra 80L in jerries.
Ability to direct rain water into aft water tank
Full fuel and extra 80L in jerries
2 on board
This worked for them.
If I was doing it I would add:
2 more solar panels
A new MPSS (??) solar regulator for better efficiency
Water maker - 12V
2nd autopilot
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Old 24-10-2010, 16:26   #67
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Noting most threads seem to go off on tangents and it is so rare for anyone to answer the exact question as if they were writing an academic essay or answering an exam? ... At least with this type of question there are real options, and financial and safety concerns that contentious posters might feel obliged to disclose?
Good point.
Interestingly, discussion of thread drift is thread drift, because nobody has started a thread to discuss thread drift.... as far as I'm aware.

BUT... This is a good thing. It's a bit like comparing using the donk to get straight from A to B... all threads would be dried up in 20 postings... Or tacking, covering a lot more ground, and enjoying the journey a whole lot more.

The OPs here asked a pretty broad ranging question... and getting a boat up to scratch is very open ended... "scratch" is highly subjective, and I commented on "scratch" earlier in this thread.
IMO the OP opened up the discussion on all aspects of preparing a boat for the passage, even if some posters interpret discussion of anything above minamalist to be thread drift. Yep... even watermakers

Now this post was NOT contributing to the original question and is therefore thread drift... so I apologize to the purist A to B-ers in advance etc etc etc...

Vic
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Old 24-10-2010, 17:05   #68
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Good point.
Interestingly, discussion of thread drift is thread drift, because nobody has started a thread to discuss thread drift.... as far as I'm aware.

BUT... This is a good thing. It's a bit like comparing using the donk to get straight from A to B... all threads would be dried up in 20 postings... Or tacking, covering a lot more ground, and enjoying the journey a whole lot more.

The OPs here asked a pretty broad ranging question... and getting a boat up to scratch is very open ended... "scratch" is highly subjective, and I commented on "scratch" earlier in this thread.
IMO the OP opened up the discussion on all aspects of preparing a boat for the passage, even if some posters interpret discussion of anything above minamalist to be thread drift. Yep... even watermakers

Now this post was NOT contributing to the original question and is therefore thread drift... so I apologize to the purist A to B-ers in advance etc etc etc...

Vic
Thanks for not repeating the last sentence, which was really just a bit of cynical Aussie humour!

Who knows, the original poster is from “rural” Australia and he probably enjoys a bit if fresh air and the simple life? If you read his second post he clearly says the same. I would not also be surprised if he has a diesel 4WD or even tractor and might be handy on the tools? Then like I was originally saying I have nothing against either Beneteaus or Hunters. However, there are just so many other boats out there on offer?

(I had better get the scallywag to school and transfer my boat rego to NSW on the way back so I can go for a legitimate sail. Hopefully we will catch up for a beer or sail sometime?)
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Old 24-10-2010, 17:45   #69
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Welcome Seachange! There are many good opinions here and much good information. C&C 44 is a good yacht. I have not sailed one personally, though I have been around them in different destinations that I have sailed to. The owners seemed to be well satisfied. I have cruising friends that are sold on Swans. I have sailed the the run between San Diego and the Marquesas, on a 47' Skookum, in November and had a broad reach the whole way, only one day of doldrums on the equator and with 6 people on the vessel made do with a 400 gallon water tank, with plenty left over by the time we reach Nuka Hiva, it was a 23 day crossing. We caught plenty of water off of the sails during the squalls. This was a bare bones set up no GPS, no Watermaker, No solar panels, no A/C; we ran our engine about an hour a week to maintain battery charge. We did have an 8 track cassette player for music in the aft cabin, Ipods had not been invented yet nor walkmans. So I am one of the long keel, sextant crowd. I do like the idea of a watermaker, however I will also try to keep from using it more than needs be. That year long trip definitely colored my opinion on what I want in a vessel for myself, and when I had the wherewithal, I bought a 27 year old, 53' Skookum and have never looked back, we also sailed with a 41' Morgan O/I and before we started our crossings the opinion was that the Morgan would out sail us because of their superior light wind capabilities, this did not prove to be the case even though we were a good bit heavier and had the full keel, we moved through the water very nicely and consistently out ran them. Do not let inexperience stop you from exploring and experiencing, and you can do plenty to prepare yourself before coming to the states to bring your vessel back to Aus., I would suggest you get out and experience as much as possible on other peoples boats, to develop your own opinion of what works for you, also do not deprive yourself of the adventure of bringing your vessel back from the states or where ever you find your dream boat. I wish you the best of luck on your next adventure.
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Old 24-10-2010, 17:56   #70
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Thankyou all so much! We are a little overwhelmed by the huge response. There have been so many helpful posts & a few taunts but hey, I'll bite my lip .

BTW - I am a she, but yes the last poster is right. We have a tractor & lucky for me a husband who is a highly resourceful tradey & quite capable of fixing absolutely anything it seems. The idea with getting a newer boat was that we want to sail it, not moor it & work on it.

However, we are now quite convinced that we don't want a production yacht & are looking at boats from the '80's incl; the Amel, the Moody, a Stephenson 47 an Alan Wright Oceans 14 and a 49 Transpac mkII cruising ketch (actually I want that last one so I can hoist a pirate flag). All from Asian cruising grounds... I will also be checking out NZ offerings. Much more research to be done before we cough up the cash it seems.

As for the water maker, we found this company, seems ok to us & relatively cheap too... 'EchoTec Water Maker' - around $5k .

Again a huge thanks, especially to those poster who have been so generous with their time, thoughts & links to useful resources. I look forward to putting up a pic of our final choice
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Old 25-10-2010, 13:45   #71
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There appear to be two major trains of thought here. Those that trying to escape "civilization" and those that are trying to take it with them (at any cost). The purpose of the forum is to share input from people with different points of view and experience.
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Old 25-10-2010, 14:23   #72
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I remember in my youth being disgusted by people motoring down wind with sail covers on in a 15 knot following wind. now I think "Wonderful. He is using his own boat in exactly the way he damned well pleases which is what "escape" and "freedom" is all about.
I have never had air conditioning, but in Tonga during hurricane season, I pointed a fan directly at my bunk ,and the effect was as good as any air conditioning, as long as I stayed in the breeze.
Put a computer fan( about $2) in a vent , and as long as you have a solar panel , you have the same thing as a solar vent , for a fraction the price.
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Old 25-10-2010, 15:02   #73
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It probably won't be like they say ...

You have your own reasons for enjoying or thinking you will enjoy cruising.

I single hand a 41.5 foot boat with ease, lots of people live aboard smaller boats, benes sail oceans and you can get by without ac, water makers, solar panels and guns.

In the end it's what you are comfortable with, what suits your vision, lifestyle, interests and family and it probably won't be what people tell you it will be.

But we'll tell you anyway, so to quote Stillraining ... carry on.
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Old 25-10-2010, 21:01   #74
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There appear to be two major trains of thought here. Those that trying to escape "civilization" and those that are trying to take it with them (at any cost). The purpose of the forum is to share input from people with different points of view and experience.
I think that is the most profound thing I have ever read in a cruiser forum.

Cheers
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Old 25-10-2010, 21:45   #75
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how many gallons per day per person please

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Exactly -- it's a personal perspective. But it's wrong to say "you're going to need a water maker to get a boat across the ocean." Because then someone who is looking for advice might think exactly that -- that you "need" one. It would have been better to say something like, "You might want to consider a water maker."

Too many times on this forum people make statements and claim things to be facts when they are only opinions. I think most people in most situations can tell when a statement is a person's opinion and not necessarily a fact. Still, it would be nice if members would make it clear if it's an opinion or fact. And, when it's a "fact," it would be nice to provide references or sources to back it up.

Just my opinion...

how long does it take to get a boat from US to So Pacific on its own hulls? what size is the water tankage in the boat? how much water per person per day on this trip, sans personal hygiene? please, provide us that calculation so that I can size the water tank rather than buy a water maker. Id really like to know how much water that is because I want to make some very long passages in a year or two and would just love to skip the price of the water maker.

thanks, please provide the numbers. I will be absolutely delighted to be proven very wrong.
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