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Old 21-02-2011, 16:49   #16
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Re: crossing the pacific

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
this guy isnt talking about a coastal cruise- gunkholing from port to port. He is talking a blue water jouney involving at least one month at sea without a stop. Would you go to sea with bad electrics, busted ass diesel, chafed sails, 15 year old standing rigging.

Cheers
Oz
I didn't read that the OP has such a poor boat. I would concern myself with the rigging. If on a budget I'd not fret over the engine or tired sails. As I asked: have you seen the cruisers who are out there? They are obviously comfortable with boat conditions far short of perfection. And this is in Blue Water destinations.
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Old 21-02-2011, 16:55   #17
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

and your point is?
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Old 21-02-2011, 17:10   #18
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pirate Re: Crossing the Pacific

I think the point he's trying to make is not everyone freaks if a little thread runs on a sail, or if fuel filters clog and starve the engine, or if a stay pops... you either pull out the sewing bag and stitch on the move... rig up an external fuel system with fuel skimmed from the top where there's no crap.... set up an emergency stay... in other words you get on with the trip and life and leave the sat phone/ssb/vhf mayday calls to those who are in real trouble....
If you cant fix/improvise your own crap stay close to TowBoat US... or no further than 4hrs offshore..
There's comments from some here who would'nt do it in a 50ftr solo... and would think twice with crew...
why do some folks think the more folks and bigger the boat the safer you are... or is it '
"if I'm going down I'm taking someone with me.."

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Old 21-02-2011, 18:23   #19
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Many an ocean has been crossed without a motor, just ask the Pardeys. There's a Scandinavian couple on YouTube circumnavigating with a Contessa 26, they removed the engine to increase storage.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:33   #20
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

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why do some folks think the more folks and bigger the boat the safer you are...
I've been agreeing with boatman61 far too much recently, so allow me to offer a more rational perspective.

AS A GENERAL RULE, bigger boats are safer. I've owned an 8' inflatable, and a 20' inflatable. Guess which one I'd rather take through a surf zone.

I've owned five different keelboats, starting with a 22-footer and culminating in a 46-footer. Guess which one I'd rather cross the Pacific in.

There are those who insist that modern sailboats put too much emphasis on comfort. I reply, simply, that comfort is safety. Having the ability to go below and rest comfortably between watches is huge. If I can go below to a hot cup of soup, followed some good sleep in a warm, dry berth, I'm going to come back up for my next watch ready to take on whatever comes up. And if I can rotate watches with a few other competent crew members, I'm going to be far more safe than sailing short handed.

More boats are lost to crew fatigue than any other problem.

Can the Pacific be crossed in a 28 footer? Sure it can. But not as safely as in a larger boat, especially if the larger boat does a better job of accommodating crew.
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Old 21-02-2011, 18:42   #21
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pirate Re: Crossing the Pacific

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I've been agreeing with boatman61 far too much recently, so allow me to offer a more rational perspective.

AS A GENERAL RULE, bigger boats are safer. I've owned an 8' inflatable, and a 20' inflatable. Guess which one I'd rather take through a surf zone.

I've owned five different keelboats, starting with a 22-footer and culminating in a 46-footer. Guess which one I'd rather cross the Pacific in.

There are those who insist that modern sailboats put too much emphasis on comfort. I reply, simply, that comfort is safety. Having the ability to go below and rest comfortably between watches is huge. If I can go below to a hot cup of soup, followed some good sleep in a warm, dry berth, I'm going to come back up for my next watch ready to take on whatever comes up. And if I can rotate watches with a few other competent crew members, I'm going to be far more safe than sailing short handed.

More boats are lost to crew fatigue than any other problem.

Can the Pacific be crossed in a 28 footer? Sure it can. But not as safely as in a larger boat, especially if the larger boat does a better job of accommodating crew.
Cheers Bash... I was starting to worry I'd gone 'Mainstream..'
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Old 21-02-2011, 21:28   #22
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

Probably it is.

I would seriously consider building a new rudder and (if necessary) strengthening the way the rudder post is supported inside the hull. As it is, it does not seem seaworthy.

Then I would consider how the mast / standing rigging are attached.

Finally the overall structure soundness and water tightness.

Almost any boat sails as long as water is kept outside, the rudder is attached to the boat and the mast is still standing.

It is not wise to cross oceans in small boats, but as you have seen from the above posted examples - some of those who try survive. Others not, but we will never hear their stories ...

It is a relatively low (for such a small boat) ballast ratio with relatively shallow keel, so probably you will not store any heavy items on the deck on the passage.

Can't you find a better boat for the same money?

b.
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:25   #23
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

Bash not disagreeing with this comment persay. "More boats are lost to crew fatigue than any other problem". I agree about fatique.

However I feel more vessels are lost to inadequate anchoring than any other reason.

cheers
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:54   #24
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

I think the 80% chance of survival threw everybody as I am sure most work on the 100% line even if unrealistic. One of the reasons many boats head to sea in less than good condition is the owners unawareness of said condition.
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Old 21-02-2011, 23:17   #25
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

It depends more on your skills and knowledge than the boat.
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Old 22-02-2011, 00:21   #26
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

Agree with Mark, done it single handed in a 32 ft, wouldn't be too fussed about doing it in a 28, and I know people I wouldn't leave the harbour with who sail 50fters.
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Old 22-02-2011, 02:18   #27
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

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Originally Posted by kcchampion View Post
i just looking at get my first sailboat. the one i seen for my price range is a 28 ft morgan out island.
Have you bought this boat yet? or is there a chance we could suggest an alternative. The reason is and I don't know the model, but it looks a little high sided and shallow draft.

Joey69 suggested reading the Atom voyages website:

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom -* Good Old Boats List - choosing a* small voyaging sailboat

Good advice for those of us on a budget (actually we all are, jsut the size fo the budget changes).

Don't rush, there may be a better yacht for you that members of the forum could suggest, or you look again at Craigs list etc.

Pete
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Old 22-02-2011, 07:21   #28
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

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I think the 80% chance of survival threw everybody as I am sure most work on the 100% line even if unrealistic. .
Actually, I thought it was quite clever. Somebody needs to drive traffic on this site and if the mods didn't throw in that bit about 80% we wouldn't have spent all night talking about it! Seriously, they've gotta know we'll only bite on "guns onboard" or your generic "what's the best bluewater boat" so many times. This thread adds a twist of the "slightly suicidal sailor" to the age old "is my boat up to the test / can I do it on a recycled shoestring" question. I say BRAVO!

Its all a damn conspiracy . . .
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Old 22-02-2011, 07:53   #29
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Re: crossing the pacific

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
this guy isnt talking about a coastal cruise- gunkholing from port to port. He is talking a blue water jouney involving at least one month at sea without a stop. Would you go to sea with bad electrics, busted ass diesel, chafed sails, 15 year old standing rigging.

Cheers
Oz
I've done that trip, 1 boat Panama - Tahiti, 2nd boat Tahiti - Moorea (that one really was a pile of sh1t), 3rd boat Moorea - Raiteia, 4th Raiteia - Rarotonga, 5th Raro - NZ. 99% of cruisers are out there making to and mending, not having all the top notch kit. I've crossed oceans with bad electrics, busted diesels, chafed sails and 15 year old RUNNING rigging. I always left the boats in a better state of repair than I found them.

The most rugged was a Spencer 44 - I'd be happiest in a storm in that - IMHO there's no replacement for displacement. It's mostly about knowing the boat and being able to fix stuff, technically the sailing is almost all downwind.

Make sure that you have spares of everything except mast and hull and get good at stitching sails.

PS. don't forget a spare rudder!
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Old 22-02-2011, 20:42   #30
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Re: Crossing the Pacific

I would say that your chances of making it work depends a lot on skill but mostly on whether you can think during and handle crisis.

I read about a lot of people here who obviously can only hammer nails or turn a wrench with their wallets. It seems that many of the most boisterous in the crowd have crews to handle the rough or tough stuff. It's one thing to boast about making it against all odds by repairing an engine or rigging on the fly, quite another to cry about the same and finally offer up that your right hand man John really came through for you.

For those with small wallets, large skill sets, and desire for adventure, 80% survival is damn decent odds.

For those who have no skills but a gift of gab, a sharp tongue and a large wallet, 99% makes them shake in their boots and call the small wallet crowd.

Ironically, the small wallet crowd tell the best stories at the bar. Hell, look at the examples of people who have been sucessful that have been posted in this thread. Laugh at them if you want but they did what you wouldn't and you are here retelling their story even if only with a picture; but not your own story.

Ultimately, choose which crowd you belong to and run with it.



Matthew
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