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Old 02-10-2013, 19:05   #46
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

If you look you can get a kit with all the necessary. If you have air. You want air anyway. Vacuum, blow, wipe. You paying someone to paint it, DIY, or gelcoat? Which paint?


Make sure you've got a Tyvek, rubber gloves, tape seals, and at least a half mask with goggles too. Otherwise you will be very sad.
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Old 02-10-2013, 19:25   #47
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Of all places....found it at O'Reilly's auto. Deck paint will be DIY. I would like to actually like to go sailing someday. :-) so until I win the lotto...I'll learn as I go. Of course if I win the lotto, I'll have a Little Harbor 53. :-). I was thinking Interlux. A guy I correspond with who is restoring another DE 38 had a really good result.
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Old 02-10-2013, 19:33   #48
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

If polyester fillers or resin are used, forget about acetone for cleanups. Acetone cleaned brushes still go hard, unless you use more acetone than the brush is worth.

A cup of powdered Tide in a quart of water will clean your brushes, and wash your gloves right on your hands while you are working, just like washing your hands normally, to get rid of "fuzzies". Dry with paper towels.

I like to have plenty of brushes to apply polyesters, and slosh them in the tide and take a fresh one when they begin to get hard or too fuzzy, and clean up all of them at the end. I have disposable brushes I have used with polyester resin over 15 times.

I didn't believe the guy who told me, until I tried it.

Cynics let her rip! But try it sometime!
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:10   #49
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

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If polyester fillers or resin are used, forget about acetone for cleanups. Acetone cleaned brushes still go hard, unless you use more acetone than the brush is worth.

A cup of powdered Tide in a quart of water will clean your brushes, and wash your gloves right on your hands while you are working, just like washing your hands normally, to get rid of "fuzzies". Dry with paper towels.

I like to have plenty of brushes to apply polyesters, and slosh them in the tide and take a fresh one when they begin to get hard or too fuzzy, and clean up all of them at the end. I have disposable brushes I have used with polyester resin over 15 times.

I didn't believe the guy who told me, until I tried it.

Cynics let her rip! But try it sometime!

You just leave the brush in a bucket of acetone. I would not laminate with a brush contaminated with soap and water. In fact, I wouldn't let a bucket of soap and water on the job site at that phase.
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:15   #50
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

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Of all places....found it at O'Reilly's auto. Deck paint will be DIY. I would like to actually like to go sailing someday. :-) so until I win the lotto...I'll learn as I go. Of course if I win the lotto, I'll have a Little Harbor 53. :-). I was thinking Interlux. A guy I correspond with who is restoring another DE 38 had a really good result.
Roll and tip Perfection, eh? You've got a long hard road to travel, keep at it and good luck!


With epoxy and cloth, I'd keep those grinds about 1/8" into the glass, glass up with 2-3 layers of cloth without peel ply, and as soon as its good and tacky apply a slick of 407 by chemical bond. Saves a lot of time. Tape off well back.
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:47   #51
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Roll and tip Perfection, eh? You've got a long hard road to travel, keep at it and good luck! With epoxy and cloth, I'd keep those grinds about 1/8" into the glass, glass up with 2-3 layers of cloth without peel ply, and as soon as its good and tacky apply a slick of 407 by chemical bond. Saves a lot of time. Tape off well back.
I know!!! OMG I'm dreading it!!! It's going to be brutal but here's the thing: I have an older boat. I'm on a budget. I COULD spend my money on a perfect paint job...and that's literally a YEAR of cruising. Trust me I'm struggling. I've always been pretty particular about appearances...and things being "coffee table perfect." But I can't spend more on professional Awlgrip than I spent on the boat!!! I want to get "out there." And I have loads of time off. I work 7 on 7 off. I have the time and the place and 2 years before we set sail. Any other recommendations on paint? The Perfection looks GOOD and he didn't too it. It leveled out really well. But he was alone and I have help.

I wondered about a filler over the glass. Glad you mentioned it. Explain "tape off well back"?
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:54   #52
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^^^ He didn't TIP it, just rolled an, 10% thinning and blotting excess on a block before rolling. He was on Florida tho, I'm in CA. Same temp but drastically different humidity levels.
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Old 02-10-2013, 23:39   #53
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

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Originally Posted by DiverChick71 View Post
I know!!! OMG I'm dreading it!!! It's going to be brutal but here's the thing: I have an older boat. I'm on a budget. I COULD spend my money on a perfect paint job...and that's literally a YEAR of cruising. Trust me I'm struggling. I've always been pretty particular about appearances...and things being "coffee table perfect." But I can't spend more on professional Awlgrip than I spent on the boat!!! I want to get "out there." And I have loads of time off. I work 7 on 7 off. I have the time and the place and 2 years before we set sail. Any other recommendations on paint? The Perfection looks GOOD and he didn't too it. It leveled out really well. But he was alone and I have help.

I wondered about a filler over the glass. Glad you mentioned it. Explain "tape off well back"?

Yeah, Perfection is pretty easy. It's all in the prep really. Personally I prefer gelcoat for a cruising boat, but not everybody can do that. You should be quite happy with Perfection.

Don't tape off too close and end up with glass on the tape is all I'm saying. Lotsa people do that. Are you using WEST? Which hardener? Just curious because we were talking Duraglass earlier on this thread, and that obviously isn't compatible with epoxy.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:39   #54
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Yeah, West systems. I was looking at ordering from US Composites and I think their epoxy is 635 but I didn't get it yet and it's coming from FL. So I got stuff locally for now.

I'm still tempted to use Duraglass on some of the little cracks. But I'll be greatly annoyed if it cracks again so probably going to try glass. I'll post some pics when I get out there and you can give me your input.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:46   #55
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

Anytime!
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:37   #56
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

I'll be doing the same repairs on our boat in another year or so. A bunch of gel cracks, pretty much all at hard corners on deck. I was planning to do the same as you DiverChick. Grind them out a bit, and apply a couple of layers of 10 oz cloth and some fairing. Sand and paint with Perfection. The hull sides are Awlcraft2000 (professionally sprayed), so I figured the deck could be painted as well. Then I read what Minaret recommends regarding gelcoat being better for a cruising boat. I see his point because the deck will be abused and gel is repairable. My only problem is I've never worked with polyester resins before. Should I use CSM with polyester instead of cloth? Maybe a combination of the two? I'm concerned with matching color as well. Maybe the color mismatch will be less obvious on deck as opposed to the acres of shiny real estate on the hull sides. Also, in many areas where the cracks are, there is molded non-skid about an inch from the corner / crack. If I can only grind back to the non-skid, would I be better off using the stronger epoxy method? Epoxy will pretty much rule out gel coat and require paint though. What would you (Minaret) recommend there?
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Old 03-10-2013, 16:32   #57
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Ok so bright and early didn't happen. Well I was up...but decided to run some errands at home first to avert a crisis...as in the wine fridge was almost empty and I had two club shipments waiting at the vineyards. :-)

Here are a couple pics. Most are in the hard corners. The two parallel cracks are in the cockpit as you step out of companionway. Thoughts Minaret?
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Old 03-10-2013, 16:44   #58
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

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I'll be doing the same repairs on our boat in another year or so. A bunch of gel cracks, pretty much all at hard corners on deck. I was planning to do the same as you DiverChick. Grind them out a bit, and apply a couple of layers of 10 oz cloth and some fairing. Sand and paint with Perfection. The hull sides are Awlcraft2000 (professionally sprayed), so I figured the deck could be painted as well. Then I read what Minaret recommends regarding gelcoat being better for a cruising boat. I see his point because the deck will be abused and gel is repairable. My only problem is I've never worked with polyester resins before. Should I use CSM with polyester instead of cloth? Maybe a combination of the two? I'm concerned with matching color as well. Maybe the color mismatch will be less obvious on deck as opposed to the acres of shiny real estate on the hull sides. Also, in many areas where the cracks are, there is molded non-skid about an inch from the corner / crack. If I can only grind back to the non-skid, would I be better off using the stronger epoxy method? Epoxy will pretty much rule out gel coat and require paint though. What would you (Minaret) recommend there?
Poly and CSM with gel finish is the way to go, IMHO. Only cracks which go all the way through the laminate need more than CSM. Perfect color match is attainable, I have addressed this some elsewhere on the forum. Awlcraft is a good second choice. While it is much softer and thus not as durable as Awlgrip or gel, it is almost as easily repairable as gel and color matching is not an issue. Doing repairs in tight waterways comes with the territory. Learn to triple tape at least while rough fairing. This is another place tools like a 1" Roloc shine. Tungsten carbide burr bits on a die grinder too. Fair with custom blocks. I like rubber wet sanding blocks re-sawn in a band saw to the right width. Simple stuff like bits of stir stick or ply with grit stuck to it works too. I have hundreds of custom blocks at this point, made in just about every imaginable material. One whole large rolling toolbox full of nothing but blocks. My wife gets pissed when I steal her nice little custom made rosewood and cherry blocks with a varnished finish and laminated rubber bottoms. If you do this for a living you can end up taking it a little far!
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Old 03-10-2013, 22:13   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltyhog View Post
I'll be doing the same repairs on our boat in another year or so. A bunch of gel cracks, pretty much all at hard corners on deck. I was planning to do the same as you DiverChick. Grind them out a bit, and apply a couple of layers of 10 oz cloth and some fairing. Sand and paint with Perfection. The hull sides are Awlcraft2000 (professionally sprayed), so I figured the deck could be painted as well. Then I read what Minaret recommends regarding gelcoat being better for a cruising boat. I see his point because the deck will be abused and gel is repairable. My only problem is I've never worked with polyester resins before. Should I use CSM with polyester instead of cloth? Maybe a combination of the two? I'm concerned with matching color as well. Maybe the color mismatch will be less obvious on deck as opposed to the acres of shiny real estate on the hull sides. Also, in many areas where the cracks are, there is molded non-skid about an inch from the corner / crack. If I can only grind back to the non-skid, would I be better off using the stronger epoxy method? Epoxy will pretty much rule out gel coat and require paint though. What would you (Minaret) recommend there?
I totally get your thoughts on Gelcoat. Tonight I was second guessing. But I think I've decided just to go with my original plan and epoxy and paint. I want to put cockpit combings on my deck ( the DE 38 has a completely flat deck and lots of water gets into the cockpit underway. Not so fond of having a cold, wet butt. ) So I'd have to gelcoat THOSE and that seems like too much for my novice skillset. So paint it is. Alarm set for the morning...going to grind out some cracks!
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Old 03-10-2013, 22:51   #60
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Re: Could Use Some Advice on Fillers

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Ok so bright and early didn't happen. Well I was up...but decided to run some errands at home first to avert a crisis...as in the wine fridge was almost empty and I had two club shipments waiting at the vineyards. :-)

Here are a couple pics. Most are in the hard corners. The two parallel cracks are in the cockpit as you step out of companionway. Thoughts Minaret?

Yeah, those are pretty bad. Definitely will be well into the laminate. I wouldn't be surprised if you find some factory voids as well, particularly on the radii. You may want to grind some of those out a little wider, like around 2-3", if you have to grind well into the glass to get the crack out. Don't grind a hole chasing cracks, leave yourself something to glass to! Your gel is pretty severely hammered, and looks to have a serious porosity issue as well. This boat needs a paint job, probably can't restore the gel here. You need to use an excellent primer like 545 before topcoating with the paint of your choice. Much of the job's quality and longevity will depend on your prep work and primer. Lots of work here.

I would start by giving the boat a serious wash down, using at least Boat Zoap or better, and preferably a pressure wash too. Then get down on hands and knees and minutely inspect every square inch of deck you will be painting. Mark every crack and chip with a Sharpie (I like red for this). If you don't you'll miss a lot of them due to dirt or just forgetting where they all are, or due to the incredible amount of dust that will be created on your first grind. You can't conceive the volume of toxic itchy glass dust created by this process if you haven't done it before. The sharpie marks will get ground off, but you can use blue tape instead if you are afraid of the sharpie. Then mask any adjacent hardware, to avoid getting grinder scratches on your hardware. Triple tape if it's close. You can use a base layer of good tape covered with layers of cheap stuff. Grind for prep. Wipe with acetone while grinding to make the lam clear so you can see the crack and chase it out completely. Then vac well and blow off. Wipe off with 'tone or alchohol. Then mask around each repair, 2" or so back if possible, depending on size of the repair. Glass with WEST and Fast hardener, mixing small batches. As soon as the glass is half set, apply WEST with 407 mixed to mayo consistency (not peanut butter, it should still be glossy, just thick enough not to run). Apply sloppy high, it's better to have to sand a lot to fair than to have to come back and fill lows again. Don't try to fill flush or make it pretty, just make sure you put on plenty and it's high everywhere. Sand fair with 60 and 80 grit on blocks only, no hand sanding. When you start to hit the surrounding tape with 60, pull tape and switch to 80. Keep the 80 scratches within 2-3" inches of the repair. Fair flats first, then radii and fillets. Then prep the whole boat to 180, guide coating first. 3M dry guide coat is best, but a rattle can works too. Apply a spot prime to each repair, making sure the primer covers the 80 grit profile and using at least three coats. Sand the spot prime out with 180. Now the whole boat is in 180 profile. Prime the whole boat, spray applying at least 3 coats. If you roll and tip primer, you will need to sand out twice and may need as many as six coats. Good primer ain't cheap. Sand the primer out with 400 grit, guide coating first. Then vac well, blow off, and wash the whole boat very thoroughly. Wipe clean twice with Awlprep and lint free cotton rags. Mask off well. Use quality tack cloths next. Then pick a perfect weather window and time frame for the right ambient conditions, and apply the topcoat of your choice. De-mask. Clean tape adhesive and any bleed through (use fineline to prevent this). Then apply a beauty bead of black caulk (or white if you prefer) around all hardware and rails. Voila! A deck paint job. Next you get to do the non-skid, which is a whole other conversation.
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