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Old 02-06-2016, 10:02   #16
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Re: Cost per year

Known several long distance cruisers and many who have tried and failed.

Stay out of marinas, cook most of your own food and live simply and the economics are good. Don't , and you will be back in the work force after a few months.


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Old 02-06-2016, 10:04   #17
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Re: Cost per year

rmorrow -- we put 7 years of cost data out there broken down by year, it is everything we have spent and I mean everything
we sail a Jeanneau DS40 and are full time liveaboards
let me know if you need explanations as we sailed the east coast of the usa, Bahamas, western and eastern carib and now year 3 years in the Med and right now in the black sea

good luck
7 years of cost data
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Old 02-06-2016, 10:58   #18
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Re: Cost per year

I have issue with the often quoted 10 to 20 percent of purchase price as I can't make sense of it.
It seems to imply that if I buy a 40 yr old boat for 20K, then my yearly maintenance will be 2 to 4 thousand a yr, but if I bought a 2 yr old boat for 200K, then my maintenance costs will be ten times as much, while it may be just the opposite.

I have not yet done it, but I have worried myself sick over trying to figure it out, and have finally came to about the same conclusion that Sailorboy has, 40 to 50K should leave us very comfortable without having to pinch pennies too hard.
Although I find it likely that if I had 100K a yr to spend, I might just spend close to that, I do think that it's Human nature to adjust spending up if the assets are available
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Old 02-06-2016, 12:25   #19
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Re: Cost per year

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I have issue with the often quoted 10 to 20 percent of purchase price as I can't make sense of it.
It seems to imply that if I buy a 40 yr old boat for 20K, then my yearly maintenance will be 2 to 4 thousand a yr, but if I bought a 2 yr old boat for 200K, then my maintenance costs will be ten times as much, while it may be just the opposite.

I have not yet done it, but I have worried myself sick over trying to figure it out, and have finally came to about the same conclusion that Sailorboy has, 40 to 50K should leave us very comfortable without having to pinch pennies too hard.
Although I find it likely that if I had 100K a yr to spend, I might just spend close to that, I do think that it's Human nature to adjust spending up if the assets are available
A64pilot, this has been my thought also every time I have seen this "estimate" mentioned. Unless a boat has gone through a complete (good) refit and you are starting your estimating from there, my thinking is that the cheaper the boat, the higher your initial maintenance costs are going to be until you get to the point where you have already fixed or replaced everything. We've purchased a lot of cheap boats, and have usually spent many multiples of the purchase price by the time they were done.But 10-20%, NEVER.

We have seen budgets quoted all over the map, and the size of the boat seems to be small issue to it sometimes, but rather it is more about the lifestyle of the boater. A 50-footer with very basic systems and a captain and crew that are happy to anchor out, fish, cook all their meals, etc. etc. are going to have a far different budget than the same size boat with all the bells and whistles, a big genset to run it all, a crew that frequents marinas and high price restaurants, flights home, rental cars, etc. etc. And I am sure there are budgets at all points in between those two, so without a lot of detail about someone's boat and lifestyle it is impossible to come up with numbers that would be accurate for any individual. I think the comparisons Beth Leonard did in the Voyager's Handbook, with the three different boats and lifestyles, are a great place to start to understand what is possible, and relate it to how you see yourself cruising, and on what type of boat.

We have estimated a lot of things based on our knowledge of our habits, our fixed bills (cell phones, storage room, health insurance, a couple of credit cards, etc.) and then basically what we already spend on groceries, eating out, other types of recreation, etc. subtracted all the expenses related to our house and cars that will go away (in two weeks, thank god), created a yearly fund for boat repairs, added a fudge factor for unknowns, and a monthly amount for savings for the transition back to shore when it becomes necessary. Lo and behold it comes out to exactly what we will have. Amazing how that works.

The beauty of this lifestyle is that I can see how you can adapt it to the money rather than adapting the money to it, when need be. Cutting back in one area so you can spend a little more in others.
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Old 02-06-2016, 13:09   #20
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Re: Cost per year

Sure marinas and eating out are big budgeting items and killers. But if you really pay attention to blogs that have budget info you will see what really makes major differences and variations for a given boat. It's none of the things people tend to think about, it's:

The amount of time you spend in one location! Those with the lowest budgets tend to stay in a spot a long time. They probably chose this because it was a lower cost area, but even if not they are getting longer term pricing on dockage (if used) and have learned the lower cost places to eat at etc. in that location.

The other major budget item is health care costs and this almost factors into location and length of stay.
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Old 02-06-2016, 14:19   #21
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Re: Cost per year

Here's some real data: maintenance and operation costs for the past 27 years of ownership for the sloop, Born Free, a 42' Perry design built in Hong Kong in 1981.

I do most of my own maintenance, am a professional in the marine business (mostly electrical, power systems, electronics, and communications), and try to keep my boat in excellent cruise-ready condition.

In these years she's cruised the Atlantic coast waters from Maine to the Bahamas, spent 11 years in the Eastern Caribbean where she was cruised throughout the Leewards and Windwards, passed some rough winters in the Chesapeake area, and is now on her fourth summer of cruisinig in Maine.

It could have been done cheaper, yes. However, I'm a fanatic about choosing only the best equipment to replace or upgrade things on the boat, be it rigging, electronics, electrics/power systems, communications, etc. No chincy stuff allowed aboard.

FWIW and, as always, YMMV...

By the way, on average that works out to about 12% per year of her insured value. However, as was correctly mentioned before, yearly costs may vary by an enormous amount.

Bill

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Old 02-06-2016, 14:30   #22
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Re: Cost per year

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Here's some real data: maintenance and operation costs for the past 27 years of ownership for the sloop, Born Free, a 42' Perry design built in Hong Kong in 1981.

I do most of my own maintenance, am a professional in the marine business (mostly electrical, power systems, electronics, and communications), and try to keep my boat in excellent cruise-ready condition.

In these years she's cruised the Atlantic coast waters from Maine to the Bahamas, spent 11 years in the Eastern Caribbean where she was cruised throughout the Leewards and Windwards, passed some rough winters in the Chesapeake area, and is now on her fourth summer of cruisinig in Maine.

It could have been done cheaper, yes. However, I'm a fanatic about choosing only the best equipment to replace or upgrade things on the boat, be it rigging, electronics, electrics/power systems, communications, etc. No chincy stuff allowed aboard.

FWIW and, as always, YMMV...

By the way, on average that works out to about 12% per year of her insured value. However, as was correctly mentioned before, yearly costs may vary by an enormous amount.

Bill

Attachment 125384
Bill could you note costs not included... if possible... does this include mooring/slips? haulouts? and so on... Since you are a do it yourself sort of guy... does the work you did include and engine work aside from oil changes and winterizing? Or did you have mechanics for that sort of thing?
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Old 02-06-2016, 14:39   #23
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Re: Cost per year

I think you mention West Indies and the Med. Both areas are expensive and esp. so to a newcomer.

Your living expenses will be based on your lifestyle and your boat costs will be related strongly to your boatsize and what the boat is all about (material/condition/style/age/etc).

I think an annual budget of at least 25k will be required to live on / cruise some / and take good care of a generic plastic fantastic boat in the West Indies. There is not upper limit obviously.

The lower limit is only attainable in some cases, not as a rule.

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Old 03-06-2016, 09:02   #24
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Re: Cost per year

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This is very subjective I know, but realistically trying to figure out a yearly budget for living aboard, sailing, setting up shop in the Caribbean, then the Mediterranean perhaps. Assuming a 50' boat, (figuring the cost by the length of the boat seems a bit odd to me, obviously bigger costs more,....but has anyone actually done the real numbers to back this up, I think there must be a zero point.... then extra maintenance needs....also what you do where you are also greatly affects your financial needs.....I just want to get the right amount in annuities and call it done...thanks for the help as always....
Rick

What is YOUR budget for cruising? The right question isn't "what does it take in money to do this vague thing" but rather "can I go cruising on a certain size boat if I've got $___ dollars to spend every month or year."

So what is YOUR budget? what are you hoping to cruise with?

What do you need:

Take your at-home costs for food, travel, entertainment, tools, all things that aren't related to your actual housing. Know that you're highly unlikely to spend LESS than that number and it is likely to be higher. So if it's $40K/year, you'd better have $40K/year for living.

Regarding the boat costs, chat with a surveyor to get a handle on it but essentially maintenance relates to the original purchase price of the boat (new) or replacement value of the boat (if you had to buy a new boat that was just like your 30 year old boat but brand spanking new). Systems and parts for bigger boats are more costly for sure. Some surveyors advise you budget between 2%-6% of the purchase price of the boat for maintenance each year. That doesn't mean 2% of the $20K you buy a boat in poor condition for, it means the $200K purchase price of that boat in new condition if bought new today. You may spend only $500 one year and then $15K the next on the maintenance of that boat. If you DIY, costs will be much lower. While some parts are really expensive (e.g. we have a windlass that would cost between $7.2K and $11K to replace, that windlass alone is worth more than our previous boat) in general it is the labor that is costly -- so DIY can make the 2% to 6% number stay on the 2% side of things.

Moving long distances fast costs loads of money vs going very slowly. The folks out there cruising on a shoestring are moving at the rate of snails. That's OK because there's all the time in the world to get somewhere. The cruising lifestyle is one of "wherever you go, there you are."

As a gross generalization, if you've got the money to continue maintaining the lifestyle you live right now (without working) you've probably got the money to go cruising but whether you can do it on a 50ft boat...that would relate to your DIY skills and the particular boat you buy.

There is an amazing number of folks who come asking "what would it cost for me to go cruising on a [huge] boat?" on the forum. Do a forum search and read many of the answers. Go sailing and figure out what size boat is realistic for you and your personal budget.

Best of luck.
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Old 03-06-2016, 17:04   #25
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Re: Cost per year

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(...)

Moving long distances fast costs loads of money vs going very slowly. The folks out there cruising on a shoestring are moving at the rate of snails.

(...)
Very good post Schooner ... except where I quote you.

I think our 2003-2006 rtw budget qualified as a shoestring (at best). We sailed Goteborg to Las Palmas (with a 2 year break in-between).

Moving long distances fast ("fast", in our case - a very small boat here) can be in fact the least expensive way of cruising - life at sea is nearly always less expensive than being places. There are no bars, nor chandlery stores offshore ... ;-)

I am with you on what you say and I will only add that one can also sail long distances fast on a small budget.

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Old 04-06-2016, 04:37   #26
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Cost per year

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Very good post Schooner ... except where I quote you.

I think our 2003-2006 rtw budget qualified as a shoestring (at best). We sailed Goteborg to Las Palmas (with a 2 year break in-between).

Moving long distances fast ("fast", in our case - a very small boat here) can be in fact the least expensive way of cruising - life at sea is nearly always less expensive than being places. There are no bars, nor chandlery stores offshore ... ;-)

I am with you on what you say and I will only add that one can also sail long distances fast on a small budget.

Cheers,
b.

I was not clear. My point is that when one uses the boat things wear and break. The faster one progresses their travels the more wear and tear. For a big boat this is going to be noticeable. On a very small boat the living expenses may be closer in scale or supersede the boat maintenance. Not so on a very large vessel.


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Old 04-06-2016, 05:13   #27
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Re: Cost per year

Yep.

Pushing hard may bring in more damage than pushing moderately. Pushing beyond limits is equal to destructive testing ;-)

Of the 15 IMOCA now between NY and les Sables, 5 got damage on the first night. Immediate reaction of the rest of the fleet - slow down.

The same applies to the cruising mode - pushing too hard, at sea, or at the bar, asks for a higher budget!

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Old 04-06-2016, 06:17   #28
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Re: Cost per year

Iíve always considered "percentage of cost" estimates to apply to maintaining the boat in like condition - not improving it.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:04   #29
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Re: Cost per year

Here is my $0.02 from nearly 2 years of prepping to untie from the dock. Yes, mimic your real land life expenses that are non home and auto related...In my particular case I'm budgeting for a 45' or so newer Cat and not planning on skimping for the first year while I figure things out. Plus who knows how long I will want to be out there. I fully realize I will pay the "rookie" tax and my expenses will go down as I learn what the hell I'm doing. That being said I'm budgeting $7K per month for general life expenses (extremely high I realize but hey its a budget because I would rather be pleasantly surprised on the low side than shocked on the high side) and $30K per year in maintenance/insurance and marina type fees. I plan to be on the move and anchored out most of the time maybe 6 nights a month at a dock, mostly because I'm going to be learning, it might be more, maybe less...I don't know what will be the right answer yet.

If I love it and want to continue I would expect my annual expenses to normalize at around 80k per year. This does not include the depreciation that is going to take place on the boat...I am considering that sunk costs & if is worth anything when I'm done that is just a bonus. I have met some great people that cruise in everything from a 65' Oyster, 60' Outremer, all the way to a 30ish Catalina. They all seemed equally as happy on much different budgets. Their only regret...they didn't go sooner.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:07   #30
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Cost per year

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Iíve always considered "percentage of cost" estimates to apply to maintaining the boat in like condition - not improving it.

If the boat has always been maintained in Bristol condition that would be so. The percentage problem comes with either 1. poorly maintained boat which can have individual parts costing more than boat sales price to fix. Or 2. Another current anomaly right now is its still largely a buyers market of used boats. You can purchase a boat in tip top condition for far less than the cost of buying a boat in bad shape and doing those costly repairs. Even if DIY the parts are often quite high compared to purchasing a boat that has had good maintenance and repair all along.



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