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Old 03-05-2016, 09:55   #16
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I am sufficiently afraid to switch form while to blue, especially since we will bee mooring in the topics. The idea of automotive paint never occurred to me, and I am wondering why most people use marine Algrip or similar marine paint.
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Old 03-05-2016, 13:43   #17
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

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Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I am sufficiently afraid to switch form while to blue, especially since we will bee mooring in the topics. The idea of automotive paint never occurred to me, and I am wondering why most people use marine Algrip or similar marine paint.
You needn't stick to white, there are plenty of other colors, even some shades of blue, which remain fairly cool under a warm sun.
For example, Liz Clark's boat, Swell, @ Swell Voyage & she's in French Polynesia. Her boat used to be white, until recently. And the color is akin to most of the various Pindar racing boats.

Just pull up that temperature chart, & pick something which isn't on the high end of the scale. Yellows, Blues, & Greens are popular. Ditto on various shades of Tan, to include the hue on Island Packets.

Too, full length boat awnings are a HUGE help in dealing with the heat load. The bigger the better, & some even have short side curtains so that the setting sun doesn't get in your eyes when you're in the cockpit having your evening drink.
Another "trick" is anchoring somewhere that there's a consistent breeze if possible.

As to paint types, & the "why". Probably; marketing + word of mouth (as in liking your neighbor's new paint job), AKA Keeping up with the Jones's, & of course, not knowing about other options.

Plus, West Marine, Defender, or the painter, surely makes more $ from re-selling a can of Awlgrip, than they would from one of Imron which costs 1/2 or 1/4 as much.
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Old 03-05-2016, 14:30   #18
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

The beauty of these forums is that you get a range of experiences. I don't post in unless I've had an experience to share, and that's what I share - my experience. I don't doubt that different people have different experiences and perhaps more professional knowledge and experience. If they wish to share - fine with me.

Since my post was taken to task by Idylles15.5, I'll just make the following observations:

1. I'm not in the business of painting boats, I'm in the hobby of recreational boating. As such, I've had my boats painted by professional yards and simply pass on my experience, and their advice given to me over the years.

2. When we "cheaped-out" as you say, on not using a clear, we did not experience the fender rub-out you have seen on other boats. Maybe we weren't looking for it, or didn't notice it on our fender covers. What we did notice was that the boat looked and stayed nearly as shiny as with the clear coat, over multiple seasons, using Awlgrip products to wash and wax the sides. Fixing scratches and gouges was much easier. We never had a cheap or easy repair when the boat was clear-coated. Maybe the three different professional yards we used over the years just didn't take pride in their work, and use three coats - I'll have to check my old yard bills.

3. And seriously, three coats of clear paint will protect the sides of a 36,000 lb boat from scratches and gouges? That's good info considering my own poor driving habits, coupled with the marina jockeys that maneuver my boat around the lift at haul-out, always seem to put two or three new scratches in the clear-coated sides each year, despite being careful. I'd appreciate your listing the "talented" and "prideful" painters over in New York, so I can consider them for my next paint job.
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Old 03-05-2016, 22:23   #19
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

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Originally Posted by ztsf View Post
The beauty of these forums is that you get a range of experiences. I don't post in unless I've had an experience to share, and that's what I share - my experience. I don't doubt that different people have different experiences and perhaps more professional knowledge and experience. If they wish to share - fine with me.

Since my post was taken to task by Idylles15.5, I'll just make the following observations:

1. I'm not in the business of painting boats, I'm in the hobby of recreational boating. As such, I've had my boats painted by professional yards and simply pass on my experience, and their advice given to me over the years.

2. When we "cheaped-out" as you say, on not using a clear, we did not experience the fender rub-out you have seen on other boats. Maybe we weren't looking for it, or didn't notice it on our fender covers. What we did notice was that the boat looked and stayed nearly as shiny as with the clear coat, over multiple seasons, using Awlgrip products to wash and wax the sides. Fixing scratches and gouges was much easier. We never had a cheap or easy repair when the boat was clear-coated. Maybe the three different professional yards we used over the years just didn't take pride in their work, and use three coats - I'll have to check my old yard bills.

3. And seriously, three coats of clear paint will protect the sides of a 36,000 lb boat from scratches and gouges? That's good info considering my own poor driving habits, coupled with the marina jockeys that maneuver my boat around the lift at haul-out, always seem to put two or three new scratches in the clear-coated sides each year, despite being careful. I'd appreciate your listing the "talented" and "prideful" painters over in New York, so I can consider them for my next paint job.
I wasn't calling you or anyone else cheap, Jesus Christ, thats why I rarely post on here either. Always somebody looking to get offended or read a comment the way they want instead of the was written. Where did I refer to you as being cheap? My point was that yes, Awlgrip is expensive, so some people choose not to add the clear and actually you not supposed to clear certain colors. As far as yards are concerned, not everyone is as honest or professional as you think or they claim. You as the customer would never know if they put the proper mils of primer, paint or clear once you saw the finished product. I own a 15.5 Frers, and I have rubbed the dock too, and you know what I have instead of gouges down to the color, Rubbed off clear coat that looks like white dust when you rub it. 1200 wet sand, a squeegee and microfinish with a wheel, and bye bye scratch. I would list my company name, as yes I am talented honest and an anal German who takes pride in his work, but the moderators wouldn't like that. I've been to the professional yards as you put it, and you would love to see what goes on while your not there to watch. How many coats did they really put on why you weren't thee? You'll never know, but you might get billed for a few gallons that never went on. Why is everyone so sensitive and defensive on here. Harden up folks, its not personal, and yeah sometimes your wrong, like the other guy who said you can't paint black in a hot climate. Thats funny, my family had a home in Antigua for 25 years and I recall plenty of non peeling black boats in the Jolly Yard. Maybe Antigua wasn't hot enough. He should call Disney and tell them to change the color of their cruise ship. It might start to blister. Boy there is a ass for every seat huh
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Old 03-05-2016, 22:48   #20
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

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Oh, stay away from ALEXSEAL. It was new to the market, but now thats its been around for a few years and out in the elements it's showing its real properties,
I'm interested in what you have seen happening with ALEXSEAL?
Have been using Awlgrip successfully for years (roll & brushing) but tried Alexseal last year as stock was available in the Philippines.

The same painters who have done both, thought Alexseal was a little more forgiving on the roller.....
Depth of gloss appeared the same... but time will tell on gloss retention in the tropics.

What have you heard or seen?
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Old 04-05-2016, 02:40   #21
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idylles15.5 View Post
I wasn't calling you or anyone else cheap, Jesus Christ, thats why I rarely post on here either. Always somebody looking to get offended or read a comment the way they want instead of the was written. Where did I refer to you as being cheap? My point was that yes, Awlgrip is expensive, so some people choose not to add the clear and actually you not supposed to clear certain colors. As far as yards are concerned, not everyone is as honest or professional as you think or they claim. You as the customer would never know if they put the proper mils of primer, paint or clear once you saw the finished product. I own a 15.5 Frers, and I have rubbed the dock too, and you know what I have instead of gouges down to the color, Rubbed off clear coat that looks like white dust when you rub it. 1200 wet sand, a squeegee and microfinish with a wheel, and bye bye scratch. I would list my company name, as yes I am talented honest and an anal German who takes pride in his work, but the moderators wouldn't like that. I've been to the professional yards as you put it, and you would love to see what goes on while your not there to watch. How many coats did they really put on why you weren't thee? You'll never know, but you might get billed for a few gallons that never went on. Why is everyone so sensitive and defensive on here. Harden up folks, its not personal, and yeah sometimes your wrong, like the other guy who said you can't paint black in a hot climate. Thats funny, my family had a home in Antigua for 25 years and I recall plenty of non peeling black boats in the Jolly Yard. Maybe Antigua wasn't hot enough. He should call Disney and tell them to change the color of their cruise ship. It might start to blister. Boy there is a ass for every seat huh
I never once said anything about peeling paint. Nor that you can't paint boats black in certain locales. I was simply relating my experiences with such. And stating some simple FACTS regarding epoxies, & the simple Physics of the Solar Absorption of various colors.

Not all boats, such as the one in my other post, are built with epoxy. In point of fact, I'd venture to say that only a very small percentage are. And there's also always the chance that the yard screwed the pooch when they built the vessel which I mentioned. Such a thing wouldn't be a unique occurrence by any means.

Folks can believe me or not. But either way, I'd strongly encourage them, & you, to go & look up the data themselves, so as to be able to make decisions based on firsthand information. That's called common sense. And most adults try to practice such daily. Especially when it concerns things costing thousands of dollars or more.


As to your complaining about the responses which you get to your postings. You might consider what, & how you write them. AKA take a look in the mirror regarding where & why such feedback starts from. Plus, take a bit more responsibility, & consideration for when & what you write.

For example, instead of throwing a whole slew of sideways negative comments at what I wrote. Never once directly addressing what I stated. You could have said that you didn't consider my position to be entirely correct, & then use your experiences to back it up.
Such a type of approach creates an entirely different feel to what's being said, & as a result, elicits a much different type of response/feedback to same.

Much of what you're saying, is likely entirely true. But it's the manner in which you said it that leaves something to be desired. Honestly, if you start out a post by whining about the horrible feedback that you say that you commonly get on here, do you genuinely expect that such will elicit a positive response? And who exactly has the thin skin here, as you put it, given the style & content of your comments?
Also, who here is misreading the content in the posts of others? Go & take another look at what I wrote concerning one specific black boat, & then compare it to your response to such. The content is Not the same.

Frankly, the bottom line is; if you can't "take the heat", then don't post. And also please try & keep the posts on topic, vs. taking up space & time with this other manure.


PS: Paragraphs go a Long way towards readability, & communication.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:33   #22
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Idylles15.5 Uncivilized has hit it right on the head. Your pleas of that's not what I intend don't hold water when viewed in context of your postings.
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:29   #23
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

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Idylles15.5 Uncivilized has hit it right on the head. Your pleas of that's not what I intend don't hold water when viewed in context of your postings.
Thank you for saying the above. I genuinely appreciate it.
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Old 04-05-2016, 08:22   #24
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

I met Sam Devlin at the Wooden Boat Show up at Mystic many years ago. In case you're not familiar he's one of the most well known & respected builders in epoxy around. When I asked him about bringing one of his boats to Florida he said he'd want to know before he built the boat that it was going there due to the heat affecting the epoxy. As I recall he said he would use a different formulation for our environment & I doubt he'd recommend a dark color. Of course the vast majority of boats out there are built with polyester resin so there's no problem. When we had our boat painted we had 2 coats applied with no clear coat & it held up very well. Might not have been as glossy as some but I think trying to keep your boat glossy is a lesson in futility.

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Old 04-05-2016, 14:41   #25
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Had my Hunter 41DS painted last year with Flag Blue Alexseal. Looks great!
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Old 04-05-2016, 15:01   #26
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Had my 44 painted with Imron in '97. I love it. No clear coat, looked wonderful... and just like gel coat you can blend and sand and polish. The boat resold again in 2014, the paint looked wonderful still.
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Old 04-05-2016, 15:31   #27
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

Phil Bolger wrote that the amount of heat soaked up by "almost white " was noticeably more in the cabin than "white".
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Old 04-05-2016, 17:04   #28
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

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Phil Bolger wrote that the amount of heat soaked up by "almost white " was noticeably more in the cabin than "white".
So, here in this thread we have folks who say the colour makes no difference in temperature, and those that say it does indeed make a difference.

May I suggest before making a rather expensive decision that you do what we did: get samples of the colours in question and apply them to identical small bits of timber or other practical substrates. Set them out in the sun, and after a while, use an IR thermometer to actually measure the temperature.

No more folk wisdom or opinion... real data that applies to the specific colours that you are considering. We were surprised at the difference between a nominal white and the pale grey that was our alternative choice.

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Old 04-05-2016, 17:49   #29
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Cost of painting the hull

My last boat was a dark blue hull, little boat. Looked gorgeous but I will never again have a dark hull. It was gel coat, but even water spots showed up, any dirt, dust anything stood out. Was a lot more work than a Clorox bottle is, big boat I think I would have to be able to afford someone else to keep it polished and waxed.

Imron is DuPont of course and was THE paint 40 yrs ago when it came out, really is old school stuff, tried but true I guess, surprised it's still made, apparently is hard on your liver if inhaled when spraying, not sure why, but years ago where I worked the painters were given liver function tests, and a few failed, and these were young kids in the Army.
I would imagine there are better single stage polyurethanes out now.

Maybe a very well insulated hull won't pass the heat through from dark coloring, but I doubt it. If you don't believe dark colors get hot in the sun take an IR thermometer and measure a dark color car and a light one in the parking lot, you'll be surprised at the difference.




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Old 04-05-2016, 17:57   #30
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Re: Cost of painting the hull

$85.00 (plus sand paper, brush, rollers, rags, etc) for the topsides on a 27' boat.

You can estimate from there with your size boat.

That is with you doing the work.

The good thing about doing it yourself is that you get a great workout in the process.
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