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Old 28-03-2013, 20:22   #16
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

We have almost none of these expenses. Except for Lib. Ins, we have a policy for 500,000 that cost about 480 bucks a year, 24 bucks every 2 yrs for state registration. Upkeep, we set aside 4500 bucks for this expense, we do the bottom every 2 yrs which cost us 800 bucks, and is included in the 4500 buck amount. We mostly have a positive amount in the kitty at the end of the year. The boat looks good and could leave our dock and go to sea in an hour or 2 anytime ! But we do own our boat and don't have a mortgage that requires full INS, so it works out cheap for us !
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Old 28-03-2013, 20:35   #17
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

you may be surprised (or shocked) when you try to get 40K of hull insurance on a 40 year old boat
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Old 28-03-2013, 20:38   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
It costs as much as you have to spend on it. No more, no less.
Yup Well put
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Old 29-03-2013, 17:12   #19
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

We have owned our 40' Caliber since we bought her new in February 1995. We cruised from Seattle thru Western Mexico 2000 - 2004 and then returned to Puget Sound. During 2005 - 2010 we spent about 180 days a year cruising the boat. In 2010 we sailed back to San Diego where we live aboard 7 months a year.

The boat gets a lot of use and is relatively complicated with a Spectra water maker (I have not shown those costs which are considerable), a high end refrigeration system which operates full time for months at a time, lots of electronics (I single hand much of the time and need a super autopilot and navigation system), and forced air heat.

I do all my own work and very rarely pay any labor cost - except for welding, machining, and some specialized wood working. Following are our boat expenses from March 2007 (when the boat was 12 years old with 2500 hours on the engine) until today. These are only unusual costs.

These figures do not include moorage, insurance, fuel, bottom cleaning since those costs are very specific to the area you cruise or boat in.

I fix things before they break and keep pretty detailed records of my expenses.

$ 2,700 new autopilot (old one was 18 years old and still worked 'sorta)
$ 2,400 new Technautics refrigeration compressor & plumbing
$ 1,500 new dodger canvas and glass
$ 750 re-certify life raft
$ 900 2 round trip haul outs - total
$ 900 4 gallons bottom paint
$ 600 new prop shaft
$ 600 six T-105 batteries
$ 450 insurance survey (last one was 2004)
$ 385 new drive motor for autopilot (to match new course computer)
$ 275 diesel water pump
$ 250 new windlass motor
$ 250 20 zincs (prop, strut, shaft) about
$ 250 new helm pedestal compass
$ 200 new skeg/rudder shoe
$ 200 fill two propane tanks a year (six years worth)
$ 165 new GPS
$ 158 One new motor mount
$ 150 new cables for most of the batteries
$ 150 new genoa sheets
$ 116 ARDIC diesel heater glow plug, fan, spare parts
$ 110 2 Rule 500 bilge pumps
$ 110 new lid for LaVac toilet
$ 100 five sets of Raccor fuel filters
$ 100 periodic replacement of dozens of hose clamps
$ 100 sandblast Sailomat windvane
$ 94 Johnson rebuildable bilge pump
$ 87 new broiler for Force 10 stove
$ 75 new battery box
$ 75 all new water hoses for diesel
$ 75 Group 27 battery for diesel start circuit
$ 75 wax and light polishing compound for gel coat
$ 75 paint for Sailomat
$ 72 six oil filters
$ 72 OPV valve for old propane tank
$ 72 new galley overhead light
$ 65 new freshwater Shurflo pump
$ 60 new cutlass bearing
$ 50 rebuild carberautor and water pump in outboard
$ 50 new heavy snubber lines for anchor
$ 50 two 15 amp 12V circuit breakers
$ 48 AC circuit breaker for main shorepower
$ 45 3 repacks on packing gland on prop shaft
$ 44 new sensors for water and diesel tank levels
$ 42 rebuild forward head internals
$ 40 labor for shop to rebuild starter on outboard
$ 35 new drains in galley sink
$ 35 new companionway lock
$ 30 new hoses for forward head
$ 30 new line for adjustable genoa car leads
$ 27 new dock steps
$ 25 all new water hoses for Ardic diesel heating system
$ 25 repair Nikon binoculars
$ 25 diesel antifreeze and coolant flushing
$ 25 replace water heater safety valve
$ 25 new GFCI for starboard AC circuit
$ 25 gallons of distilled water for house batteries
$ 22 new suction line for anchor washdown system
$ 22 companionway hasp
$ 19 replace suction line from water tank to freshwater pump
$ 17 new spray head for galley sink
$ 10 swim step shower head
$ 10 gallons of vinegar to flush thru head
$ 10 new fuel line from aft tank to Raccor
$ 15,502

OR about $2,500 per year to purchase material and parts

My total labor costs for the material above were about $2,000 – half of which was the help I needed pulling the prop shaft, replacing it, and installing the new motor mount.

If you can't do the work yourself - the rule of thumb is between 50% and 100% of the cost of the item to install or repair it.
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:51   #20
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

A good survey should give you an idea of what will have to be repaired the first few years. Insurance and marina fees are variables which depend upon location.
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Old 30-03-2013, 10:12   #21
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

A "standard" survey WILL NOT find any of the items I showed above. At least none of the four surveys I have had done. They specifically do not:
test electronics
run the refrigerator
run the diesel
test the heads
test the electrical system
determine the state of batteries
examine the standing rigging
examine the running rigging
check the status of the chain and rode
verify that bilge pumps run
check the status of the fresh water system
verify heaters work

I have hired riggers to examine standing and running rigging
I have hired mechanics to test engines and do oil analysis

But, at least in La Paz, Seattle and San Diego an out of the water survey would not have found any of the items I showed above.

The well respected surveyor that spent 8 hours on my boat doing an out of the water survey last November told me at the start:

"I am looking for things that will sink the boat, cause a fire, or injure crew - I am not here to tell you if most things work or are useable. I am here to save the boat or prevent injury to crew."

Maybe it is different elsewhere or if you hire a surveyor for a boat purchase. But, I have helped two friends buy 40' boats and in both of those pre-purchase surveys they specifically excluded standing and running rig, electronics, engines...etc.
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Old 30-03-2013, 11:59   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
A "standard" survey WILL NOT find any of the items I showed above. At least none of the four surveys I have had done. They specifically do not:
test electronics
run the refrigerator
run the diesel
test the heads
test the electrical system
determine the state of batteries
examine the standing rigging
examine the running rigging
check the status of the chain and rode
verify that bilge pumps run
check the status of the fresh water system
verify heaters work

I have hired riggers to examine standing and running rigging
I have hired mechanics to test engines and do oil analysis

But, at least in La Paz, Seattle and San Diego an out of the water survey would not have found any of the items I showed above.

The well respected surveyor that spent 8 hours on my boat doing an out of the water survey last November told me at the start:

"I am looking for things that will sink the boat, cause a fire, or injure crew - I am not here to tell you if most things work or are useable. I am here to save the boat or prevent injury to crew."

Maybe it is different elsewhere or if you hire a surveyor for a boat purchase. But, I have helped two friends buy 40' boats and in both of those pre-purchase surveys they specifically excluded standing and running rig, electronics, engines...etc.


I have never heard of a standard survey, only insurance and pre purchase surveys here on the east coast. And a pre purchase survey would most definitely include these items you have listed except for maybe determining the state of batteries. All of the pre purchase surveys I have had over the years included a cursory inspection of the diesel, including brining it up to full temp at WOT during the sea trial as well as a cursory inspection of the rigging both standing and running. The surveyor will usually recommend having your diesel thoroughly inspected by a diesel mechanic if he suspects something amiss, same goes with the rig if its elderly. Other than that they would certainly test all equipment and gear.
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Old 30-03-2013, 12:20   #23
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

Interesting - both pre-purchase surveys I participated in while in Seattle contained a clause the specifically excluded standing and running rigging. A good friend had a rigging service and made a lot of money doing pre-purchase rig surveys.

Running the diesel up to full temp tells little about it's condition.
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Old 30-03-2013, 12:35   #24
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

tacoma sailor--you got ripped off. is way cheaper to do what you did to your boat here than it is in usa. by far...i have done similar except the stuff i dont have, like fridge and hot water heater which met other ends....oh yes, and the parts that are not readily available here are more easily fabricated.
max--if you go the path you hinted at, please let me know privately so i can give you the real and true skinny on this stuff and where to go etc.
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Old 30-03-2013, 13:40   #25
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

Zeehag,

You say "-you got ripped off. is way cheaper to do what you did to your boat here than it is in usa."

How did I get ripped off?

Are you telling me you can buy Raymarine or Technautics parts cheaper outside the US?
Where can I have a Winslow 4-person SOLAS life raft recertified for less than $750?
Where can you buy CSC Micron for less than $225 a gallon?


I did all my own work so I know I did not rip myself off!

Can someone you know fabricate circuit breakers, windlass motors, genoa sheets, or water pumps?

I had to replace the windlass motor because I had the original rebuilt at a 3rd world boat yard that was supposed to be expert motor rebuilders. They "FORGOT" to put the water proof seals at both ends of the case and shaft - a saltwater windlass does not last long with no seals!

I had to repaint my bottom after one year in the tropics because the Mexican yard that supplied the paint diluted it 50% and it went on like water.

I paid a 3rd world machine shop to fabricate a new key for the prop shaft - sure it was half the price of what a San Diego shop would charge me - but I then spent four hours with a file and emery paper trying to make it fit. When I did the same repair in San Diego last fall - the new key dropped right into the new shaft and fit like a dream!

The Mexican guy I hired made beautiful name decals for our boat - perfect and very inexpensive compared to Seattle prices EXCEPT he mis-spelled the hailing port and would not fix the problem.

I have done lots of work in 3rd world yards and have participated in many 3rd world overhauls and I know that only the labor is cheaper - parts are never cheaper. And, did I mention - I do all my own labor.

The discussion about refrigeration and water heaters, and boat heaters is of no value. I have been cruising for a very long time and am willing to spend the money and time to have and maintain those luxury comfort features. Others, yourself?, have a different attitude. Neither opinion is the truth - EACH TO THEIR OWN!

Everything that I replaced was essential so how could I have avoided any of those expenses?

My labor assistance that I pay for is provided by a friend at a very low rate, actually less than I paid in Mexico.

So again - how did I get ripped off? Please - educate me!
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Old 30-03-2013, 15:56   #26
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

"Ripped off" probably just came out harsher than it was meant. It does look like you do a great job of maintaining your boat and keeping track what it costs you.

I am looking down your list and am seeing where I have done many of the same things on my boat for half the cost, or a quarter the cost, or no cost. Of course, they might not have been done to a standard that would make you happy. And I'm sure there are folks who have spent far more than you have on the same items.

The more I do this, the more I realize that there is NO way to say how much cruising costs. People do it for next to nothing. People spend millions. There is a vast continuum of possibilities.

A lot of it, I think, has to do with how you feel about money. If money (having it and spending it) is important to you, then you'll probably spend more on boating. If it's not very important to you, then you may find you spend a LOT less. This thread is interesting, and I think it's answering the o.p.'s question from a lot of different, valuable perspectives.
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Old 30-03-2013, 16:03   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
max--if you go the path you hinted at, please let me know privately so i can give you the real and true skinny on this stuff and where to go etc.
Will do! Joined leaky teaky a few weeks back and have been lurking there. I'm still shopping around for just the right old wreck.
Thanks
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Old 30-03-2013, 16:29   #28
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Re: Cost of owning a 40'ish boat

TaiBu

You are exactly correct - attitude about money is critical. The only reason I want or need money is to to do what I want when I want. I spend money on the boat for piece of mind and because I like doing projects and working with nice equipment and tools.

I retired when I was 51 to go cruising - at the peak of my earning power - that was 15 years ago and I've never looked back.

During my 35 year working career I only worked as an hourly or salaried employee for eight years. The rest of the time I worked for myself - for the last 20 years of my working life I averaged 10 days a month work and spent the rest of the time on boats or bicycles. I could have made a whole lot more money but once I had put away enough for retirement, boat and bicycle maintenance, and paid for my beer there was no reason to work anymore that month - drove my wife crazy!

I do like to maintain the boat and am proud to say in 18 years we have never suffered a failure that prevented us from moving on, reaching our destination, or safely living aboard. I spend money and lots of time making sure everything works as it should.

My wife's attitude, (she knows little about boat maintenance but a lot about cooking and keeping me happy), is that if I am smiling or not concerned she is happy. So - I work hard to ensure I am not concerned.
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