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Old 27-05-2018, 13:59   #1
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Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use inly

I am interested in buying a highly regarded Bluewater cutter. I have cosidering two of them. One has been around the world and basically has had everything refit. Standing and running Rigging, Sails, electronics, canvas. New Imron paint job. No teak!!! . Recent bottom sandblasted,and barrier coat and bottom paint. The other is one year younger has been sailed coastally. The owner has not put a dime to keep it up: 17 year old electronics, original sails, canvas, crazed hatches. Chaffed runnng rigging originalrod standing rigging.
The hull of the non upgraded boat looks excellent but I see 100,000$ difference in needed work/refitting.
The engine and generator hours are much different. The coastal boat has <1000 hours on each. The circumnavigated boat <4000 hours on each.
How much of a negative for value is a previous circumnavigation? I see the circumnavigated boat as well cared and a better value as they are equivalently priced. I wouldnít be against getting other non refit boat at lower price and then refitting.
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Old 27-05-2018, 14:46   #2
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

I see 2 angles to the question for such a 17 to 18 year old boat:

1. What are your plans with it? If youíre going to use it lightly choose the circumnavigator, if youíre going around the world yourself maybe the other might be better.

It depends on:
2. What is the build quality? Are we talking Beneteau and similar or (original) Moody and similar? If Beneteau, definitely go with the coastal one because the one that went around the world canít do it a second time without heavy wear and serious loss in value, but if it is as sturdy as a Moody then get the circumnavigator.

The 4000 hours might become an issue but you should have up to at least 6000 before a good, wel cared for diesel might need a rebuild.

Only 1000 h in 17 years also isnít such a good thing and more issues might crop up with this too infrequently used engine than with the regularly used one.

(Around 2500 to 3000 h would probably be ideal for this age. 4000 isnít that far off that but closer to the expense of a rebuild than you might wish if youíre going to heavily use it yourself.)

Of course the one or the other can still have a (hidden) defect and if you donít feel confident to sniff those out yourself then get a good surveyor.
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Old 27-05-2018, 15:57   #3
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

To me it is a no-brainer, at least if your descriptions are accurate and if the boats are the same design (that's not clear to me). I would always prefer a well maintained boat over one that had lacked that care, for boats decay when not used and regularly maintained. Your description of the "coastal' boat lists some obvious defects; I suggest that there are a hell of a lot more that are not obvious, and that were not perceived by the PO. The circumnavigator has encountered problems and fixed them along the way.

The engine hour issue isn't very important IMO. Most marine diesels are good for lots more than 4000 hours if used and maintained regularly. 6000 is easy and 10000 not unheard of. Depends of course on the specific engine, for some do last longer than other designs. And even though a rebuild/repower might set you back 15 grand, compared to the cost of all the other KNOWN issues in the coastal boat, let alone the unknown ones, this isn't a deal breaker to me.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me!

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Old 27-05-2018, 16:36   #4
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

They are same builder one year model older for circumnavigated boat. I am tending to agree with your opinion. I like to hear a diversity of opinion. Thanks for your input
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Old 27-05-2018, 17:05   #5
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

A boat that sits in a marina rots and rusts just as fast as one being sailed. Go with the one most loved.
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Old 27-05-2018, 17:18   #6
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

And as we found in our quest for our boat the asking price is probably as much or more for the boat that is needing the most equipment replaced or added.
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Old 27-05-2018, 17:34   #7
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

When buying a boat - Builder quality is the most important factor - but here it's the same.

2nd most important is owner quality. Here the choice is obvious. Go with the guy who takes care of his boat. The more anal the better

If you want more evidence, ask to have a telephone call with each owner. Ask them about recent work done on the boat and what may be needed soon. I'm betting the circumnavigator will talk for an hour and tell you about all the things he had to replace because they weren't good enough quality for him. Just the sort of PO you want
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:04   #8
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
To me it is a no-brainer, at least if your descriptions are accurate and if the boats are the same design (that's not clear to me). I would always prefer a well maintained boat over one that had lacked that care, for boats decay when not used and regularly maintained. Your description of the "coastal' boat lists some obvious defects; I suggest that there are a hell of a lot more that are not obvious, and that were not perceived by the PO. The circumnavigator has encountered problems and fixed them along the way.

The engine hour issue isn't very important IMO. Most marine diesels are good for lots more than 4000 hours if used and maintained regularly. 6000 is easy and 10000 not unheard of. Depends of course on the specific engine, for some do last longer than other designs. And even though a rebuild/repower might set you back 15 grand, compared to the cost of all the other KNOWN issues in the coastal boat, let alone the unknown ones, this isn't a deal breaker to me.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me!

Jim
I could not have expressed it better.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:20   #9
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
To me it is a no-brainer, at least if your descriptions are accurate and if the boats are the same design (that's not clear to me). I would always prefer a well maintained boat over one that had lacked that care, for boats decay when not used and regularly maintained. Your description of the "coastal' boat lists some obvious defects; I suggest that there are a hell of a lot more that are not obvious, and that were not perceived by the PO. The circumnavigator has encountered problems and fixed them along the way.

The engine hour issue isn't very important IMO. Most marine diesels are good for lots more than 4000 hours if used and maintained regularly. 6000 is easy and 10000 not unheard of. Depends of course on the specific engine, for some do last longer than other designs. And even though a rebuild/repower might set you back 15 grand, compared to the cost of all the other KNOWN issues in the coastal boat, let alone the unknown ones, this isn't a deal breaker to me.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me!

Jim
I second that as well. It was well said.

Jim
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:23   #10
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

The big advantage of a 'full refit' is that you get all new equipment chosen for what you want to do. But is does finish up costing more. A full refit can be 25% of the boats cost - cost not value! and you wont get it back if you resell. Generally then nobody is going to sell a recently refitted boat! Generally I would say, well maintained and upgraded if you can find one that you wont need to change or a sound, high quality hull that clearly needs everything doing. One is top price the other should be priced as a project. Anything in between you may be paying for gear you are going to have to upgrade very soon and can therefore be the most expensive option.
I am assuming an expedition not coastal sailing.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:40   #11
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
To me it is a no-brainer, at least if your descriptions are accurate and if the boats are the same design (that's not clear to me). I would always prefer a well maintained boat over one that had lacked that care, for boats decay when not used and regularly maintained. Your description of the "coastal' boat lists some obvious defects; I suggest that there are a hell of a lot more that are not obvious, and that were not perceived by the PO. The circumnavigator has encountered problems and fixed them along the way.

The engine hour issue isn't very important IMO. Most marine diesels are good for lots more than 4000 hours if used and maintained regularly. 6000 is easy and 10000 not unheard of. Depends of course on the specific engine, for some do last longer than other designs. And even though a rebuild/repower might set you back 15 grand, compared to the cost of all the other KNOWN issues in the coastal boat, let alone the unknown ones, this isn't a deal breaker to me.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me!

Jim

^^^This. Although this is the boat I wouldn't hesitate to keep at a dock, because the "care and maintenance" cycle sounds as if it's been continuous, meaning that while it is more "worn" in some respects, it's a damn sight newer in others.

Were you to want to immediately go on a second circ vs. weekend gunkholing, I would have further comment, but a well-found boat of any age maintained to a high standard is almost always a better buy than a boat purchased 20 years ago and mostly ignored in terms of keeping on top of what the sea does to boats. You'd want a diesel with 4000 hours on it with 20 oil/filter/belts/coolant changes over one with 1000 hours and three over the same time span, for instance. The first engine would be almost certainly in better, more dependable shape.

Cosmetics are just that: cosmetic. But a wet deck is forever, unless you tear up the deck.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:41   #12
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

If you have ever done a refit of a neglected boat you will have a whole different point of view then a person who hasn't. A refit of a boat will drain your bank account about as effectively as a divorce. In fact, some refits lead to a divorce. So that is like getting both testicles removed in one operation. Money is one thing. The loss of time is another. The third thing... it is bloody hard work.

It is a noble thought to take an old gal and make her into a fairytale princess. I am worn out from taking a 5K boat and refitting her. Forty thousand dollars later and at least 6 months of hard nasty labor.... she isn't even worth 15K. My wife just shakes her head in disbelief. Women are so much smarter than men.

Buy the boat that has been loved. Well... unless u r the type that likes self-flaggelation.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:42   #13
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
The big advantage of a 'full refit' is that you get all new equipment chosen for what you want to do. But is does finish up costing more. A full refit can be 25% of the boats cost - cost not value! and you wont get it back if you resell. Generally then nobody is going to sell a recently refitted boat! Generally I would say, well maintained and upgraded if you can find one that you wont need to change or a sound, high quality hull that clearly needs everything doing. One is top price the other should be priced as a project. Anything in between you may be paying for gear you are going to have to upgrade very soon and can therefore be the most expensive option.
I am assuming an expedition not coastal sailing.
Actually, recently refit (and to a high standard) boats come available quite often due to death, illness, disability or divorce. Some people leave cruising a little too late, and the boatyards of the world have some 99% sea-ready bargains as a result. I've stepped aboard a few. But yes, I agree that then you have to live with the tastes and skillset of the previous owner.
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Old 28-05-2018, 09:43   #14
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

My nickel, buy the boat that has done it and been maintained . The diesel could double the hours if maintained. A old unused diesel with low hours could be problem. A good survey may point out issues of bluewater sailing. Boats equal maintance, a well maintaned boat a blessing. As I sayĒ treat her like a ladyĒ😍😀
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Old 28-05-2018, 10:24   #15
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Re: Cons of buying a boat that has previously circumnavigated vs same coastal use in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Gaugain View Post
I am interested in buying a highly regarded Bluewater cutter. I have cosidering two of them. One has been around the world and basically has had everything refit. Standing and running Rigging, Sails, electronics, canvas. New Imron paint job. No teak!!! . Recent bottom sandblasted,and barrier coat and bottom paint. The other is one year younger has been sailed coastally. The owner has not put a dime to keep it up: 17 year old electronics, original sails, canvas, crazed hatches. Chaffed runnng rigging originalrod standing rigging.
The hull of the non upgraded boat looks excellent but I see 100,000$ difference in needed work/refitting.
The engine and generator hours are much different. The coastal boat has <1000 hours on each. The circumnavigated boat <4000 hours on each.
How much of a negative for value is a previous circumnavigation? I see the circumnavigated boat as well cared and a better value as they are equivalently priced. I wouldn’t be against getting other non refit boat at lower price and then refitting.
What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice. The questions are asked in order to get more clarity.

I am not questioning the wisdom of buying the best condition boat or the advice of the other members.
____________

The key question is: When was the refitting work done and how many years and miles of use since then?

Some older boats are refitted prior to a circumnavigation, that voyage then adds many thousands of cycles to parts and years of relatively hard use.

As I see it, it is not clear from the opening post when the refit work was done.

For the OP:
When (year) was the boat built, when (what years) was the boat circumnavigated (over how many years) and when was the refit work done. (What year)?
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