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Old 06-08-2015, 13:28   #16
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

What you describe is why I got our Island Packet.
The flip side is to be completely truthful, there will be times of light wind where the light weight boats with good light weight sails will still be sailing, but you won't if you go with a heavy displacement full keel boat.
Shall I put on my fire proof suit now?
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Old 06-08-2015, 13:54   #17
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Weight is a great way to mitigate the effects of wind and waves. Weight is inertia so the boat doesn't react immediately to every lump in the water. Sailing qualities of the boats very but most will do just fine except in light air. Fortunately in passage making, we've had good wind way way more often than light conditions. Personally have out sailed longer race boats on most points of sail with decent wind in our 'Wetsnail'. Going to weather is not the W32's best point of sail but will do an easy 5k if there is not a steep chop. Most of the more modern boats like the HC's and Perry's Taiwan built designs will probably go to weather better.

One thing I'd like to dispel is that heavy boats are slow. Yes in very light airs, the wetted surface is going to give the nod to the flat bottomed wet bilged new boats. Get them out in the real world and the heavier boat will do fine if it has enough canvas. Takes more horsepower to push a heavier boat and most of them have adequate sail area to compensate once the wind gets to Force 3 plus. The only place where the flat bottomed, wet bilged boats excel is in DDW surfing conditions. If you've got a racing crew and live for speed, its some exhilarating sailing. Personally, would rather sail wing and wing with the self steering driving and not live in constant fear of out of control, spreader diping roundups. I'm happy to average 6k in my 6.7k theoretical max speed boat in total comfort and peace of mind. FWIW, have exceeded threoretical water line speed over 24 hours a number of times in our good old Wetsnail. The boat that you were on seems like it was under canvassed. In those conditions would have had a reef in.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:00   #18
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Agree with A64. If you are sailing out of SF Bay or Corpus Christi, or even the Bahamas, the moderate to heavy full keel boats are much more comfortable especially short-handed for day sailing. For cruising I prefer them as well, even though you may be motoring or motor-sailing a lot until you get offshore (seems even the light boats we travel with have the same affliction). Every boat has a motion all it's own that no formula can describe and can only be felt by sailing the boat yourself.

The Island Packet like the one that A64 owns gets beat up by a lot of people on the forums saying it does not sail. Go to youtube, you will find plenty of them sailing quite well. Or ask at most any anchorage in the Bahamas.

Don't take the word from a formula or someone on a forum, unless that person has a boat you like and takes you sailing.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:06   #19
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

I know one thing, Hans Christians are beautiful boats.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:11   #20
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

As A64pilot points out...its all a tradeoff. It's up to each individual to decide what their priorities are. Perhaps one other consideration is how robust are the owner groups and are the boats still being made.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:17   #21
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

mahina.com gives a good breakdown of the various hull designs from a cruising perspective.

I didn't know what I was doing when I bought my boat (still dont), so a heavy displacement seemed a bit more idiot proof

As Roverhi mentioned of his Wetsnail, I do not at all consider my boat to be a poor performer.

And if you're really into getting every bit out of the boat, consider a torture board and a miserable period of weeks building massive upper body strength
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:20   #22
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

If you got the jing....don't forget about the many wonderful boats that are expedition type of boats like Boreal, Garcia, and Steve Dashew yachts. If I had the money I wouldn't hesitate for a second on a Boreal. Makes my knees weak, induces PVCs, and my face gets red from Blood Pressure increases.

I saw a boat the other day on yachting world from England. Just a beauty.

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Old 06-08-2015, 14:29   #23
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

This picture of the gaff rigged English Punt designed by Heard. Very heavy displacement and just a beauty. Only 45K and in pretty decent shape.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:44   #24
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

If you love eye candy Classic Boat Magazine out of the UK always has several pages of amazing boats for sale.


Buy a boat | Types | Classic Boat Magazine
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:47   #25
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

I like a lot of what Peter O. wrote up above.
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While I enjoy sailing fast on fast boats, when I think of cruising in the trade winds to some far off place, I would rather do so on a comfortable boat at a controlled speed that allows me to relax and enjoy the ride. I would prefer that over "fast and furious" and being on the edge of control (which is stressful to boat and crew).

Consequently, I would trade off speed for security or steadiness. This has influenced the kinds of boats I look at for my future cruiser.
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Old 06-08-2015, 14:59   #26
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Isles of Scilly Pilot Cutter | Classic Boat Magazine
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Old 06-08-2015, 15:13   #27
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Heavy displacement is a subspecies, whose characteristics suit some and repel others. Here's a garage-capable heavy displacement boat that has proven itself the world over:



Pic is from this page:
Paradox

p.s. No ocean crossings yet, though the concept isn't incapable of it....have a gander at a sailing legend and his latest masterpiece, Sven Yrvind:

http://www.yrvind.com/present_project/
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Old 06-08-2015, 15:27   #28
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Would also buy, read, and study J Rousmaniere's book, "Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of the Offshore Yachts". It breaks down the boat into sections (eg rigging, hull shape, keel, sails, interior, etc) by some of the preeminent boat designers in the last 50 years.. Also would give Bristols and Island Packets a look. Took a 38 ft IP from Bermuda to Annapolis..comfortable but a bit slow..just bought a Bristol 35.5, mid-displacement, so-so to weather, but flies downwind, sea-kindly, and have left the helm, walked to the bow, walked back to the helm without her deviating from course more than a few degrees...enjoy the hunt. dave
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Old 06-08-2015, 15:47   #29
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

While the boat above is very nice to look at, from a practical standpoint it seems like the worst of all possible worlds. The one big advantage of a gaff rig is its short mast and uncomplicated staying, but the boat pictured has a Marconi mast plus a long gaff. All that weight aloft would drive me crazy. Instead of a normal main, you have to raise a big, heavy gaff, then hoist a topsail to get enough sail area to move? Then there is the long bowsprit, AKA widow-maker, that I don't understand why anyone would want to go to sea with. Pretty yes, practical no.
And I agree if you don't have to reef in 20-25 knot winds, you probably won't be very happy in 8-10 knot winds.
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Old 06-08-2015, 15:58   #30
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Re: Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

Gaffers have more advantages than that....they also have heavier gear (harder to break), get more sail area up high, and more tuning and handling options such as twist or scandalising. I agree on the impracticality though....a grand old Dame of the sea is worth it though, as long as you're content to waltz the ballroom and don't expect her to jitterbug in the speakeasies.
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