Comfort/stability of 33, 37 and 40' production boats in blue water?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Similar conditions in a stable boat:

b.

Looks like they're towing a drogue of some kind to keep their stern to the wind.. mayhap a drogue on the first example would have had a similar effect..

[barnakiel]

Guys. You are right.

Just think of what makes one crew towing a drogue making a video for our enjoyment while the other boat (let's face it) wallows aimlessly in otherwise a simple heavy wind downwind scenario?

STABILITY

The heavy slow old fashioned tub has already wiped a clean slate the senses of her crew: they are most likely locked tight down below scared to death and vomiting into the wet bilge, while their 'seaworthy' ship yaws by 90 degrees, rolls nearly likely that much and can't even keep her ass into the wind.

For stability wide and flat is good while narrow and deep is not.

Flat fast sailing is good for ya slow rolly is killing ya. Face it.

b.

[double u]

could it be that the classic is just carrying way too little sail?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by double u

could it be that the classic is just carrying way too little sail?

It seems so indeed!

Probably under a reefed main she could sail faster and better.

Apparent wave period changes and there is some lift from the hull then the boat should stabilize somewhat. There is better flow over the rudder and so directional stability is better too.

We have a similar hull. Going slow downwind under a jib is probably the worst choice in a 'classic'.

b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Guys. You are right.

Just think of what makes one crew towing a drogue making a video for our enjoyment while the other boat (let's face it) wallows aimlessly in otherwise a simple heavy wind downwind scenario?

STABILITY

The heavy slow old fashioned tub has already wiped a clean slate the senses of her crew: they are most likely locked tight down below scared to death and vomiting into the wet bilge, while their 'seaworthy' ship yaws by 90 degrees, rolls nearly likely that much and can't even keep her ass into the wind.

For stability wide and flat is good while narrow and deep is not.

Flat fast sailing is good for ya slow rolly is killing ya. Face it.

b.

There is a good story behind the video of the "heavy, slow old fashioned tub" which is a very seaworthy boat btw.

I'll see if I can find it. I believe a crew member was hurt. You are only seeing the aftermath of a storm the boat had sailed though in the video which was taken buy the rescue helicopter.

The helicopter was unable to assist and the boat came in on it's own. The boat is engineless also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV0TbR5YAYQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dswcXbVFP0c

[thomm225]

The background music makes all the difference:

One Seaworthy Sailing Vessel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKusg6Jyc9Y

[GTom]

I am interested how a 36-39' bene/jeanneau/elan, etc would dance with those waves...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Guys. You are right.

Just think of what makes one crew towing a drogue making a video for our enjoyment while the other boat (let's face it) wallows aimlessly in otherwise a simple heavy wind downwind scenario?

STABILITY

The heavy slow old fashioned tub has already wiped a clean slate the senses of her crew: they are most likely locked tight down below scared to death and vomiting into the wet bilge, while their 'seaworthy' ship yaws by 90 degrees, rolls nearly likely that much and can't even keep her ass into the wind.

For stability wide and flat is good while narrow and deep is not.

Flat fast sailing is good for ya slow rolly is killing ya. Face it.

b.

Lets just agree to disagree..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GTom

I am interested how a 36-39' bene/jeanneau/elan, etc would dance with those waves...

Those boats wouldn't do as well and may not survive at all in the same situation (see below)...................they wouldn't come close to dealing with what the Sailing Vessel Anita could deal with.

Those boats and boats of today have all the equipment they need to avoid those situations.

The condos on the water that you have mentioned are capable of avoiding bad weather which is really a good thing

You can see the damage to SV Anita which was built in 1938. The boats you mentioned are not built to handle what that boat was meant to deal with

The History of the 12M Yacht

Daten der 12 mR Yacht

Beneteau 37

BENETEAU 37 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

You may want to sail a bit before choosing an expensive boat as your first boat

[GTom]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You may want to sail a bit before choosing an expensive boat as your first boat

I'll certainly do at least 10 weeks of sailing (takes a year for me if not more) before shelling out such an amount. This is just a preliminary info collection, I want to establish a decent black and white list.

Btw that bene 37 with 4.5' draft has a horrible capsize ratio. Besides "standing straight" build quality is a survival question. There are Bene/Jeanneau/etc boats with deep keels getting fine stability figures but that doesn't help if the structure falls apart. This might not be an issue for certain higher quality production boats but e.g. read about some Hanse owners peril...

Of course, real-time weather forcast is a nice thing but at 5-7knots you won't run away from a storm in the middle of the Atlantic. True, your chances are much better than 80 years ago...

[thomm225]

These are two pretty good websites that helped me. You may want to check them out.

Both have lists of boats to give you an idea of what may work as an offshore boat for you

Mahina Expeditions - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

[barnakiel]

Except that one may elect to be somewhat careful judging (be it) benes or hunters as not worthy. For we know now that even HRassys delam and keels are know to fall off Oysters too.

So to say few boats are build poorly enough to allow for a generic 'no do' grade.

b.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Looks pretty stable to me for a boat that is sailing itself.

Also those seas are huge.

They are and I seem to remember there was something wrong with the yacht like half the rudder missing which is why she won't sail down wind but can't be exact.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Weight distribution, route planning, amenities, protection from the elements and sailing experience will have more of an impact on comfort than a calculated comfort value. I wouldn't get hung up on it for similar vessels.

^^^^
This in my opinion, plus the fact that the yacht is going to be a home and spend at least 6 out of every 7 days at anchor or in a marina, so choose something comfortable to live on. If the Bene or Bavaria's have the right layout and cabins you need I certainly wouldn't rule them out. Nice fast sailing boats with a deep fin keel.

Here are the results from the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers in Nov/Dec 2016, just see the variety of yachts that took part.

https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ar...spx?eventid=65

Pete

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Except that one may elect to be somewhat careful judging (be it) benes or hunters as not worthy. For we know now that even HRassys delam and keels are know to fall off Oysters too.

So to say few boats are build poorly enough to allow for a generic 'no do' grade.

b.

As one of my old history professors used to say - "there are usually good reasons why generalizations are generally true". And I would add - "for exceptions get a surveyor".