Comfort/stability of 33, 37 and 40' production boats in blue water?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GTom

I don't think I want/can to go multi...

My point was that older cruising monohulls of about the same size whether they be fin or full keel are about the same speed off the wind just a bit. So if you are just cruising and not racing.........

Also, being in the right wind/location is probably way more important as far as speed is concerned than the particular boat you are sailing when cruising

Then there's also experience. An experienced sailor on a slow boat can many times sail it faster than an inexperienced sailor on a fast boat up to a point...............especially if talking long distance

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I friend who is a boatbuilder uses little details to ascertain the overall quality of construction. For example at a boat show first thing he does when checking out a boat is to open a lazarette and stick his hands as far in as he can. If he feels unfinished fiberglass strands, etc. he pronounces that boat/builder an overpriced POS. According to him no self respecting builder will allow a new boat to leave his shop with fiberglass anywhere on that boat able to cut your hand. Such tail tales are plentiful if you look for them instead of looking at the shiny galley faucet or some such.

I agree with this quick assessment. I suggest looking for a used Wauquiez Pretorien 35, but then I'm biased...

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

I agree with this quick assessment. I suggest looking for a used Wauquiez Pretorien 35, but then I'm biased...

Those are real boats mate! I see they worth north of 50k$ even after 30 years!

I need to do some more research on builders, so far I ruled out Hanse and Bavaria reading on rusting screws, loose handles corroding , lost keels, etc. Shame, that a nation built the best U-boats and the Tirpitz almost a century ago cannot make a few rust-free screws...

(some more here -> I guess I also have to blacklist a few manufacturers...)

[dmalcol1]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...io-114288.html

Yes the westerly rolls she has motion comfort ratio in the twenties you want to be in the forties.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by dmalcol1

Yes the westerly rolls she has motion comfort ratio in the twenties you want to be in the forties.

40's means 10T+ boat (which in my size range means full keel) as I read that list. I also see most of these boats in the 30year+ category, which means one needs a pro surveyor to avoid a pile of scrap for heavy $. I am also uncertain if a 30-40 year old boat could do another 30 (material fatigue, etc).

[sck5]

I used to have a Caliber 33 and now I have a Caliber 40. They look pretty much identical in terms of hull form, rigging, etc. I sailed the 33 from Chesapeake Bay to the the Eastern Carib and back and am now in the Eastern Carib on the 40. There is no question that both boats can do the passages but also no question that the 40 is a lot more comfortable. Easier motion and also quite a bit faster. The additional tankage makes it possible to do longer passages without being on short water rations the whole time which is pretty nice. Also much easier to have guests on the 40. My wife is disabled so I single hand almost all the time. Either boat, properly set up, can do it. But the 40 does costs more. Every fitting, every line, every day at a dock or on the hard costs more. But I wouldnt go back to a smaller boat. Nor would I get a bigger one - 40 ft. is about as big as I want to single hand.

[blackswan]

Welcome GTom,
Your first cruising boat will always be a shot in the dark. You don't know what you don't know. Going coastal sailing or chartering isn't sailing Canaries to the Med/Caribbean shorthanded. Asking on a forum will get you many different opinions, in the end you makes your choice and pays your money. The kicker is whatever you choose will work for you anyway because if you love the life you'll make it work despite whatever shortcomings you discover on the way.
You have a conflict between your budget and your other requirements therefore compromises will have to be made. Get used to it mate, at the end of the day all cruising boats are a compromise and the choice you make will be the first compromise of many.
My advice, read as much as you can from a cross section of those who came before you. It could be the Pardeys, Beth Evans, Annie Hill, Hiscock or the many other authors on the cruising life. Develop your own balanced opinion and make your choice from there.
Good luck

[GTom]

Thanks Swan, forum whining certainly belongs to my learning process. Sailing boats are still belong to mystery to me because so far I was just a passenger. There is a lot to learn here from actual owners, regular shipyard visitors (nearest one is 3 hours driving for me, a bit of a luxury to be a "regular"), success and mishap stories.

From the forums one thing I can most certainly do: a blacklist...

[GTom]

Speaking of blacklist, items I already got there: Hanse (all), Bavaria (all), Bene Cyclades - these for quality issues. Also avoiding the Elan Impressions for being on the slowish side (at least compared to their performance line). + All boats with insuffucuent draft for crossings/bad weather.

White(ish) list: Elan performance boats, Bene First & Oceanis, Dufour performance, Jeanneau sun fasts (?) - all with deeper keel, if available lead keel.

Greyzone: old crafts from the 80's: there are quite a few full-keell units with stellar motion comfort indices here, but I am reluctant to venture here. Hearing the stories of leaking Tayanas are discouraging investing the same amount in a 30 years old boat as in a 10years old "production" boat. Obviously there are hidden gems here waiting to be discovered.

[blackswan]

Originally Posted by GTom

Thanks Swan, forum whining certainly belongs to my learning process. Sailing boats are still belong to mystery to me because so far I was just a passenger. There is a lot to learn here from actual owners, regular shipyard visitors (nearest one is 3 hours driving for me, a bit of a luxury to be a "regular"), success and mishap stories.

From the forums one thing I can most certainly do: a blacklist...

It wasn't my intention to indicate that you were whining I just have a fairly blunt way of expressing myself
You have a valid question and I didn't even really answer it..
Smaller boats quicker motion, cheaper to maintain and much easier to sail. Bigger boats easier (slower/less) motion, bigger interior, bigger cost and heavier gear/harder to sail. Light displacement fast flighty and fun, heavy displacement slower easier straighter calmer.

My updated advice is sail, learn and read as much as you can from a cross section of those who came before you. Or do like I did and go experience and teach yourself. Doesn't matter which way you do it but for sure if you like it you'll learn to love it and soon enough you'll be living the dream and realising that while the type of boat is important the most important bit of gear onboard is you and your crew's knowledge and seamanship.

When I read your posts there's enthusiasm there and that's the best mate. A child's poem that was one of Robin Knox Johnson's favourites:
Listen to Mustn'ts, child, listen to the Don'ts.
Listen to the Shouldn'ts, the Impossibles, the Won'ts.
Listen to the Never Haves, then listen close to me.
Anything can happen, child, Anything can be.

[barnakiel]

A non stable boat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7FddPO5QM

b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

A non stable boat:

b.

Looks pretty stable to me for a boat that is sailing itself.

Also those seas are huge.

[barnakiel]

Similar conditions in a stable boat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-svmgOxqw

b.

[barnakiel]

Then you will also find one fine video when they are getting nearly killed trying to board a colin archer styled mono in a rolly anchorage.

Wide and flat is good.

Long and narrow is bad.

b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Similar conditions in a stable boat:

b.

Totally different situation.

You have one boat with a sea anchor or drogue being crewed and another sailing itself.

If the wide boat flips, it will not recover but the narrower one will