Comfort/stability of 33, 37 and 40' production boats in blue water?

[John Drake]

The factors that contribute to stability and comfort are manifold. It is really not as simple as LOA.


First and foremost is displacement (regardless of length). That is why a Westsail 32 is a roomy, comfy and stable boat. Space down below is related more to displacement than LOA. The ratio of ballast to displacement can often be a good indicator of stability.


You are often able to find the angle of vanishing stability (AVS) or the 'righting angle' of a monohull. The greater the AVS....generally...the more stable and comfy a boat.


One final attribute is one that is often overlooked. A big boat, or a heavy displacement boat can be more work to handle and sail. THAT contributes to fatigue. Fatigue has probably led to more disasters than weather.


You can have all the winches and gadgets you like, but, you cannot lower the amount of WORK it takes to manage a sail plan. Mechanical devices can reduce the effort it takes...but not the amount of work.


A 34-38 footer out sailing beats a 42 tied to the dock (for lack of crew) or the bank.


Best advice is that of the Pardy's: Go small, go NOW. The future is not assured for anyone.


Best,

[John Drake]

Hasten to add two small caveats:


Fatigue - given a solo sailor


Go small go now - given that you are experienced enough

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GTom

Point taken, that brought the elan piece to my list originally (at least one review praised tank placements)


I am a bit reluctant to buy a 20+years old fiberglass boat, shouldn't fiberglass decompose? (osmosis, etc)
.

I've seen 10yr old Bene's with osmosis.. my 12yr old Bene 321 had 273 bubbles that I ground out when I got her back to the UK.. my 1973 Longbow which I bought in 1994 had not a single blister
Moody's were quality boat builders and she's from a time before cost cutting became extreme.. also her location in Scotland means she's likely only spent 6mths/yr in the water and hauled out every winter.. she may not be the Rolls Royce of boats but definitely better than a BMW..
Pete7 one of the Mods here owns a Moody and can inform you better.

[barnakiel]

I do not think a W32 is a good example of a stable boat. I found it extremely rolly in fact.

An Opti is a good example. Smaller, lighter and ... flatter?

Also an inflatable dinghy is stable too. Again, small, light, flat.

My guess is : you want a stable boat, get a cat or a boat with flat canoe body.

That Elan 34' (if it is one of the newer ones) will be a stable boat.

b.

[roygee]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not think a W32 is a good example of a stable boat. I found it extremely rolly in fact.

An Opti is a good example. Smaller, lighter and ... flatter?

Also an inflatable dinghy is stable too. Again, small, light, flat.

My guess is : you want a stable boat, get a cat or a boat with flat canoe body.

That Elan 34' (if it is one of the newer ones) will be a stable boat.

b.

Depends on whether you are talking about dynamic stability or static stability; the latter could very kill you in vertical, rough seas.

[robert sailor]

Just keep one thing in mind, when I started cruising we were sailing on a 36 foot boat and it was considered to be plenty big because most cruisers were crossing oceans in 30-35 foot boats. A 40 footer was considered large. There were less cruisers out then but on average I think they did more ocean crossings so I wouldn't buy into the idea that you "need" something close to 40 feet. Larger boats are more stable and more resistant to being knocked down or rolled in large beam seas but they may or not be equal in quality.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by GTom

I already collected many points for the purchase:
#1: budget - should be <60k€
#2: condition - recently refitted, up-to-date and reliable electronics
#3: performance - I'd go with speedier designs. For me, sailing is still means of travel, getting from one place to another in 4 days instead of 5 has value for me (->> fin-keel+spade rudder?)
#4: motion comfort and reliability if I am caught in a storm, when I got to ocean passages.
#5: enough room for 4 people+provisions on a transatlantic passage.

1 & 2 point to a smaller boat while 3, 4, & 5 point to the larger one.

All other things being equal, the longer boat is going to be faster and provide a more stable platform in every situation. It's also going to have significantly more interior volume than the smaller boat; the relationship is not linear to length, since interior space is cubed volume. It's closer to exponential.

Speed is a safety issue; the faster the boat, the more options you have with respect to dealing with impending or current weather, to an extent.

Any boat with a shallow forefoot and shallow bilge is going to pound a bit, no matter the length, but the longer boat is going to be more stable in a given sea state.

Your last requirement points solidly to a 40'. I think that's what you want, it's just a matter of squaring your budget with what you need.

Keep in mind that the bigger the boat, the greater the maintenance and repair costs. Beefier hardware, larger engine, greater slip costs, etc.

[UNCIVILIZED]

For the OP, you can probably gain a lot of insight into boat size, maintanance, boat age, & the cruising lifestyle by reading Liz Clark's stuff www.swellvoyage.com She bought an old Cal 40', which are small, 7t, 40'ers, and refitted it for cruising. And has been out there for many years now. The bit on initially tuning the boat up, & fitting her out goes into a lot of detail of what a lot of boats need in terms of TLC, & gear. So if you study this, you'll have a better idea of how a lot of folks get ready for cruising. And also what's involved in various refits along the way. Since any boat, new or used, will need lots of TLC if it's sailed regularly, especially oceanically vs. day sailing.

There are lots of other blogs too. And in some folks will compare & contrast their current boat with other's they've owned. Both larger & smaller. Which could be of help too. And if you want the full undergrad, to post grad self-education on boat selection, read the below linked page, as well as the links within it. It's a bit of an Alice In Wonderland journey, hopefully a wizening one.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2206710

[Bill O]

Here's a good site to compare boats. Selected is the Elan 340 but you can browse easily.

Yacht Design Data

Happy hunting.

Bill O.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by roygee

Depends on whether you are talking about dynamic stability or static stability; the latter could very kill you in vertical, rough seas.

What I am talking is boats that are stable.

By boats that are stable I understand boats that sail flat and do not roll. This translates especially to comfortable sailing (especially downwind) and / or to comfort at anchor.

A modern Elan, Arcona, Bene are stable boats. A Lagoon is probably best. A W32 is not.

Now you do not mean a modern Elan, Arcona or Bene will kill the OP in "vertical, rough seas".

Plenty of beam and flat canoe body add to comfortable sailing and to comfort at anchor.

An Elan 340 is a good choice when looking for comfort when sailing and anchored. It also offers nice spacious cockpit for the summer. Their E4 will be even better.

Love,
b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by roygee

Depends on whether you are talking about dynamic stability or static stability; the latter could very kill you in vertical, rough seas.

What I am talking is boats that are stable.

By boats that are stable I understand boats that sail flat and do not roll. This translates especially to comfortable sailing (especially downwind) and / or to comfort at anchor.

A modern Elan, Arcona, Bene are stable boats. A Lagoon is probably best. A W32 is not.

Now you do not mean a modern Elan, Arcona or Bene will kill the OP in "vertical, rough seas".

Plenty of beam and flat canoe body add to comfortable sailing and to comfort at anchor.

An Elan 340 is a good choice when looking for comfort when sailing and anchored. It also offers nice spacious cockpit for the summer. Their E4 will be even better.

Love,
b.

[Elie]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The difference between a 33 footer and a 40 footer of the same type is vast.
Vastly more comfortable.
Vastly bigger.
Vastly better.
Vastly more sea worthy.
Vastly less scary in a big sea.

Get the biggest boat you can afford.

I wouldn't cross in a 33 footer if my life depended on it. Oops it does.


Mark

I agree totaly, with this general statement, but...
Larger boat means also more maintenance, more marina and services costs. In fact everything is much more costly, including insurances, repairs sails, etc...

Regarding sailing offshore, we have to keep in mind that size is all relative. In the 60's a good offshore had to be 10 meters(33 fts) . It was considered very safe. Now, 50 ft is more the norm for offshore voyaging. It has more to do with confort than anything else.

[Island Time O25]

With the budget of under 60K€ you would not get a decent enough turn key boat in the 40'+ range unless extremely lucky or have time and patience to search for such a deal. IMO it's infinitely better to have a good and well kept 35-37ft vessel than a so-so 40'+ footer. Not to mention all the running and maintenance costs which would go up exponentially.

[baycruiser]

Go sailing on a 33ft bavaria and then try any size catalina and you will or should know your answer if you cant afford to do this just go and buy what you can afford not the biggest .They should take you for a sail test if they wont again you have your answer .Most contracts can be cancelled if you are not satisfied with sail test .Just keep on doing this until you are satisfied.My option is for the smallest that is the most comfortable

[nic26]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Of all the construction methods, solid fiberglass is the most long lived, & low maintenance. There are still glass boats built in the 60's out there sailing.

Quite right, Nicholson 26 from 1964 and when I drll a hole into the hull its like oil drilling into the 2 cm thick GFK, which explains also her weight of about 5 t. Came without electronics and will get not much for the sake of reliability and self sufficiency. A boat is a state of your mind.