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Old 06-12-2012, 04:34   #46
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Hmm... I must be imprudent then.

By the way, how do you keep the rain from filling up your cockpit when the cockpit drain seacocks are closed?
I have pondered that question several times. Why does my sailboat have cockpit drains below the waterline? I have no good answer. I do have seacocks on the lines, but I so far, have never closed them. Mainly, because getting to them is a pain. Not easy or convenient. In practice, I guess it would be better to have a 4" rain in the cockpit, than a sailboat at the bottom of the lake should a hose fail.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:59   #47
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Re: Cockpit Drains

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...By the way, how do you keep the rain from filling up your cockpit when the cockpit drain seacocks are closed?
Nebraska is in the Great Plains region, similar to your Outback. Even the buffalo and the Indians couldn't make it there. Any families still out there are dying off. The major river that drains the area is the Platte. The saying goes that the Platte (you can guess it's French meaning) is too thick to drink, and too thin to plow. Here's all you need to know:



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Old 06-12-2012, 10:09   #48
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Re: Cockpit Drains

N23 30.47 W109 29.75

About 20 miles ESE of Punta Arenas on the SE coast of the Baja California peninsula

The "Downwind Jib" photo was taken shortly after the prior breaking wave picture was taken. The "Downwind Laundry" was taken 24 hours later about 1/2 way between the Baja Peninsula and Banderas Bay (Puerto Vallarata) on the west coast of the Mexican mainland.

After a few long cruises one learns that the worst, or most interesting, situations pass under the keel and it is quickly back to normal cruising - "how to get enough sail up to keep boat speed above 3 knots?"
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:55   #49
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Re: Cockpit Drains

Interesting thread. It seems to me the more important issue is keeping the scuppers clear of debris than whether they are big enough or there are enough of them. I have 2-2" scuppers which drain at the transom above the water line. I haven't had any problem with them.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:36   #50
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Re: Cockpit Drains

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
I have pondered that question several times. Why does my sailboat have cockpit drains below the waterline? I have no good answer. I do have seacocks on the lines, but I so far, have never closed them. Mainly, because getting to them is a pain. Not easy or convenient. In practice, I guess it would be better to have a 4" rain in the cockpit, than a sailboat at the bottom of the lake should a hose fail.
I always leave cockpit and deck drains open. Chance of a hose failing which has zero pressure in it and is double clipped is vanishingly remote. Standing water in the cockpit is nasty, ruins the teak, and could theoretically overflow into the bilge via the washboard drains.


That does not mean, however, that I approve of cockpit and deck drains being routed below the water line. I have six deck drains and two cockpit drains exiting below the water line, which is 8 (!) unnecessary holes in the bottom of the boat. Worse, the cockpit drains are only 1" hoses (or maybe 1.5", I can't remember exactly, but they are too small). So my cockpit drains can't even keep up with a hosepipe with good pressure. This is very poor, and possibly the only real big design flaw I've found in my otherwise superbly designed boat.

It's less critical for me than for some others because my cockpit is pretty high above the waterline and probably 15 feet ahead of the transom, so it takes some really extreme wave to get green water in the cockpit. That being said, I've done it! I sail in some pretty tough weather sometimes, and I have had a wave break over the side and into the cockpit. Once I had a pretty good mass of water come over the bow and land in the cockpit, dumping a bunch of water into the cabin through the (stupidly) open wash boards. That was in huge confused seas after 60 knot winds the night before, last summer.

So I might actually consider modifying my cockpit drains -- much bigger ones, and drained through the transom as others have done.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:43   #51
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Re: Cockpit Drains

P.S. -- even if you leave deck and cockpit drain seacocks open when you leave the boat, it is very good practice to turn them off when you turn off all the others, then open them again. That is so they get the same exercise the others do. A seacock which is never cycled will freeze up within months, and then you have a problem if a hose fails underway and you need to stem a leak.

If you have seacocks of any kind which are not readily accessible, then you should consider cutting an access hatch or moving them. In my opinion this is recklessly bad design, very dangerous. You should know all of your sea cocks intimately, and be able to reach them in seconds, in the dark. Keeping your boat afloat might depend on it some day.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:13   #52
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Re: Cockpit Drains

I calculated that if my cockpit fills to the brim, I've got about 3800 lbs of water there. My drains are piddly little 1.5 inchers, one of which is plugged. Definitely on the to do list.

Since my boat is steel I figure on going with 2, possibly 4 straight flow through pipes, about 3 inch diameter. They will also act as supports between cockpit and hull. There are some cross members that were left in after welding up the hull I want gone, as they are not noted in the drawings but being cautious I'll put some verticals in just in case.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:14   #53
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Re: Cockpit Drains

TacomaSailor ... it's not an obsession ... it started out to be a comment on a project that I just completed. I removed my old, rotted rubber tubing and gate valves that you couldn't have closed if you wanted to. Having a Spencer boat I read a lot of Hal Roth books including one where he changed his stock drains to 3 inch drains going out a common discharge at the waterline. I had no Idea the thread would take off like it did. It's interesting reading other sailors views and comment.

Another contributor commented that he never closes his thru hulls because they are hard to reach. This is another pet issue I have with boat builders. It's there for a reason. Put the valves where they can be easily reached.
On the boat I'm building, and here it's just personal preference, except for the cockpit drains and diesel overboard I only have 2 thru hulls. 1. Seawater in for diesel and flushing and 2. water out pumped from the bilge or various tanks. Both valves are ball valves and easy to reach. Also, they are push to close, which means in rough seas you don't have to be bracing on something for leverage to pull on a handle.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:32   #54
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Re: Cockpit Drains

Chasing Summer
I appreciate your concern for proper installation and management of thru hulls and their associated valves.

750 miles east of Charleston headed south on a 53' boat with one 3" thru hull that fed a sea chest - very ship shape and easy to manage

THREE of the four bolts holding the Marlon thru hull to the hull stripped and a fair amount of water started leaking into the boat. My brother is a pretty clever cabinet maker and was able to fashion a wood splint that fit around the Marlon valve and pressed onto the base to hold it to the hull. He fit the top of the splint to press against the bottom of the companionway step which he screwed down tight. He then used wedges to tighten down the splint. Stopped almost all the leakage.

During the remaining three days of the trip we had to be careful not to step on the top step for fear of breaking the thru hull loose.

At that point we were really wishing it had not been a single big thru hull.

After the delivery trip from Annapolis to Virgin Gorda we found an identical stripped Marlon thruhull under the tool box - apparently the prior owner knew of the problem, had experienced the problem, and failed to tell the new owner (who we were working for) about the potential failure.
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Old 06-12-2012, 14:15   #55
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Re: Cockpit Drains

TacomaSailor ... I see your location as San Diego and Puget Sound. I presume sailed both north and south more than once. I'm currently in San Diego rebuilding my boat. What route do you take going north. Do you gunk hole it using your diesel a lot or do you go out to sea and tack north? When I'm finished I'm headed to SF Bay then on to Puget Sound. I've always wanted to cruise Puget Sound. After that I head for the South Pacific.
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Old 06-12-2012, 14:48   #56
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Re: Cockpit Drains

Chasing summer: Whacha doing for head pumpout?
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Old 06-12-2012, 15:07   #57
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Re: Cockpit Drains

Head and sink go into black and gray water tanks to be pumped out overboard while at sea thru a manifold so I can choose either tank or the bilge. Also, on the manifold is a 2nd pump. Pumps can also be isolated so you can do double duty on the bilge if needed. Also, a stand pipe for dockside pump out.
Thanks for asking.
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Old 06-12-2012, 15:14   #58
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Re: Cockpit Drains

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Head and sink go into black and gray water tanks to be pumped out overboard while at sea thru a manifold so I can choose either tank or the bilge. Also, on the manifold is a 2nd pump. Pumps can also be isolated so you can do double duty on the bilge if needed. Also, a stand pipe for dockside pump out.
Thanks for asking.
Ooooooh. I like that.

Why the gray water tank?
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Old 06-12-2012, 15:14   #59
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Re: Cockpit Drains

I am continually frustrated by inadequate drains on production boats, i once owned a C&C24 where the cockpit sloped towards the cabin which had no bridgedeck, there were 2 x1.25" drains converging into a single 1.5" seacock under the cockpit. The really dumb thing is that the back wall of the cockpit was 3" away and paralell to the transom,and the sole was 1ft above the waterline,why the hell they didnt slope the sole aft and had a couple of large freeing ports in the transom is beyond me.
I have made drains that drain through the topsides above the waterline out of rectangular pvc house downpipe, you can get various elbows like 45 and 90 degree so you can plumb the thing fairly easily, then take it out and wrap it with as much glass as you want, then reinstal and glass in , there is no need to remove the pvc as its not going to deteriorate and it dosnt mater if the glass bonds to it so you can use polyester resin.

Steve.
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Old 06-12-2012, 15:17   #60
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Re: Cockpit Drains

Gray and black just because it worked out that way. Fwd black tank for pooper, shower, sink ... aft tank, which was a HUGE void under the engine I glassed over and that is gray for the galley sink.

You gotta remember I'm a submariner and I'm doing a lot of things on the boat that are straight out of submarine design. Also, remember that submarines are designed to sink and not get wet on the inside.
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