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Old 02-02-2016, 13:06   #16
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

You can document the boat, but you still need to pay the sales tax and register it where you actually want to keep the boat.
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Old 02-02-2016, 13:46   #17
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

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Originally Posted by tdoster View Post
I don't think an argument on the application of taxes is serving the OP well or close to topic. Each State has their own requirements and funds. Some better than others. I will bite and venture off in that the problem with ANY organization (private or government), is that the larger it becomes, the less inefficient it becomes. What happens when you roll up what was a very efficient and well run organization like the US Coast Guard under Homeland Security? Then roll up an organization that really has nothing to do with either - FEMA. Where is the money now going? The squeaky wheel gets the oil....
You are right about the usage and efficiency in the layers of governmental management, no matter how well-intentioned the lawmakers or administrators are. If paying taxes gave us more services then I should be receiving double good services here in Connecticut! ha.

the Supreme Court (Justice Learned Hand) long ago ruled that citizens have no duty to arrange their affairs in order to generate the most taxes due. In fact, citizens have a duty to arrange their affairs to best benefit their family and their endeavors.

Another way to look at it - if a state or admin district is working hard to have low taxes and good services then why shouldn't you register your boat there? Reward good efforts when you find them, and you will automatically do well for your family and yourself. the Coast Guard rescues and the buoys will take care of themselves no matter where you register the boat.
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Old 02-02-2016, 13:49   #18
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

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Originally Posted by Mark Stillwell View Post
Let me echo others suggestion to go online for documentation information: USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Home Page

The forms are very straight forward and easy to complete. I completed them for one boat and the finance company completed them for 2 other boats. I think they charged about $150.

If I understand, this is like a national/international title for your boat. As I recall, the finance company did an abstract search to verify there were no liens on the boat.

In Missouri, you first document the boat, then register it and pay an "in lieu of" tax, which is about 2% as opposed to 7% sales tax
First. You should do an abstract before you put an offer on a boat.

An abstract will tell you if anyone has placed a claim of lien against the boat. Does not mean it is valid or collectable, just that it is there and as the new buyer, you want that sorted out before you place the offer as it can sometimes be a long drawn out process to clear the claim. Meaning, you don't want to fork over a few hundred for a haul and survey until you know you have a clear abstract.

If there is a lien against the boat (currently financed and the proceeds will be used to satisfy the loan), then paying a documentation service is well worth it as they will ensure the proceeds clear the current loan and the preferred mortgage in the process of clearing. Again, nothing against brokers, but nice to have someone who knows what they are doing.

Many brokers will request an abstract from the CG when they take the listing for obvious reasons, but still do your own before you pay to survey the boat.

Also, if the boat is state registered right now, it is a good idea to run a search on it anyway to see if it was ever documented.

Office of Science and Technology

https://cgmix.uscg.mil/PSIX/PSIXSearch.aspx

Check under any prior names. You can usually spot a name change on the stern no matter how good it was buffed out on older boats without a HIN.

If the boat was previously Documented, find out the status. If it is active/expired, then you may have some work to get it cleared up. That comes up where a boat was documented by a prior owner, new owner buys the boat and does not de-flag it with the CG, but just registers it with the State, then sells it a few years later, as far as the CG is concerned, the prior owner still owns it, it is still documented but expired. Also, any claims of lien are still valid.

The above also happens a lot with stolen boats. Take the boat, register it with a State, then sell it to some schmuck who thinks he got the deal of the century with valid title.

Now days, when that happens, you may get the paperwork back from the CG after 90 days when they work your packet and then spend a great deal more time trying to get it straight not only having to track down who you bought the boat from, but also maybe who he bought it from. Or the mechanic who placed the lien on the boat 15 years ago. A lien filed with the CG will not stop a sale or the new owner documenting the boat in his name and ownership. It just means that someone could come back and demand payment and if big enough go through the rigorous and expensive process of repossessing the boat through the US Courts and Marshall service.

Finance companies will run their own abstract before they file their preferred mortgage to ensure it is clean before they file. If the other guy split town and didn't pay off the boat, you may have a loan to pay off and no boat. If your broker skips town like Ed Fitzgerald did a number of years ago with your check, you can also be left hanging.

There are no escrow companies for boats, but documentation services like Carol Mathews will help you through the process and keep everyone honest, so they are worth the money. Just using them as an example of a company I have used before.
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Old 02-02-2016, 13:59   #19
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

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Originally Posted by biltin69 View Post
This is my first post. My wife and I are looking to buy a used sailboat (40'-45') in Texas. I was told that I should get Coast Guard Documentation because we will be live a boards traveling from Nova Scotia to Bahamas and the Caribbean. The state I live in now (NM) told me that I will not need to pay sales tax or register it in NM as long as I don't bring it into the state.
Question is - Can I get Coast Guard Documentation with out a state registration?
Yes. Exactly what i did in NYS.
A documented vessel also gives you a few protections, like title search.

You will need it to travel outside USA.

Lastly, I never registered boat with NYS, it's not here in NY, so has never been an issue.

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Old 02-02-2016, 18:23   #20
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

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You are right about the usage and efficiency in the layers of governmental management, no matter how well-intentioned the lawmakers or administrators are. If paying taxes gave us more services then I should be receiving double good services here in Connecticut! ha.

the Supreme Court (Justice Learned Hand) long ago ruled that citizens have no duty to arrange their affairs in order to generate the most taxes due. In fact, citizens have a duty to arrange their affairs to best benefit their family and their endeavors.

Another way to look at it - if a state or admin district is working hard to have low taxes and good services then why shouldn't you register your boat there? Reward good efforts when you find them, and you will automatically do well for your family and yourself. the Coast Guard rescues and the buoys will take care of themselves no matter where you register the boat.
I have to respectfully disagree with using Justice "Tax Avoidance" to encompass the complexity of the issue. Avoiding paying tax is easy, anyone can do it. Defending yourself after you receive a tax bill is a little more difficult.

Here is a site with good information. The topic has been discussed ad nauseam on many forums and amazing that many people say just document, worked for me. When you receive a tax bill from the state of California 7 years after you bought a boat and 2 years after you sold it to someone else, well it does not sound like great advise anymore.

Answers in Boat Tax Law | Maryland and US Boat Tax Attorneys


http://www.boattax.com/avoid-boat-taxes/
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Old 02-02-2016, 18:27   #21
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Re: Coast Guard Documentation Assist

If you can get STATE registration in NM without taking the boat there it will be useful in deflecting water cops everywhere else you go. You may be able to use the CG documentation & bill of sale to help you register in NM. As the other posts note, you need no state registration to be documented. IN FACT, if you get a state registration, you may not apply state numbers to the hull but you can apply the state water use sticker. This is the item that will keep the FL water cops from imputing Fl tax & registration on your vessel.


Here is your starting place. You can do this yourself or hire it done for 2 to 4 times the cost. USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Home Page If you are confused, sent them an inquiry. they will eventually respond.
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