Cheaper Old Boats: False Economy ?

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Oh contraire! The OP said both were the same brand! "two Jeanneau models that seem fairly similar but from different "eras" that appeal to me at the moment, Sun Shine 38 (1985-89) and the Sun Odyssey 37 (2000+)"



Oh contraire again!

We just spent the weekend in Singapore drinking booze and sailing. Everyone else at this marina spent the weekend working on their boats.

Which would you rather be doing?



Mark

Actually, I'd rather do both. Believing that simply because one has a newer boat means that they can sit back and mock everyone else working on their older boat while the 'new' boat owner plys themself with liquor and wallows in smugness is exactly how new boats turn into maintenance nightmares and neglected boats.



If you've restored or worked on the boat yourself you know the boat. If you haven't, or have paid other to do the work for you, you don't.

[Solitude]

I'm one of those that enjoys spending some time working on the boat. In doing so I feel I've gained a wealth of information. Not just in general but I know every system in it. Hopefully I've made improvements that will translate into the boat being more saleable when I trade up.

I only do medium projects and at this point wouldn't want to spend years rebuilding a boat. But the value of knowing your boat through refitting systems is priceless.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by hoppy

Right now I am 11 working days from it right now and my client whilst they say the want me has not shown up with a contract (large slow acting bureaucratic orgs ) Maybe I'll be looking for 30 footers soon and have plenty of time to sail it though

I was just looking through this thread and could not help but laugh about my post.

It's 11 months later, my current contract is about to end (again) and I still have no yacht. On the plus side, my Searay is well and truely sold and I have just agreed to a further 12 months with a nice rate increase

My wish list has gone around and around and around in my head so much I am getting dizzy.

I'm back to almost where I started as I have been eyeing of some end of season sales of several Sweden Yachts 34 from around 80-82 and some 340's from 87-89. This time around they are right here in Sweden and most of the interesting boats are right here in Stockholm.

I had a look at one of the 340's for the dockside yesterday and it looked really nice up close. It looked well kept, a lovely looking teak deck and the rigging looked good as well. Hopefully this is an indication that it is well kept.

It has fired me up to arranging inspections of the Stockholm boats and perhaps arrange a trip to the west coast to look at the rest.

I hope I don't find myself re-reading this thread in another 12 months and find myself still in the "same boat"

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by hoppy

... It's 11 months later, my current contract is about to end (again) and I still have no yacht. On the plus side, my Searay is well and truely sold and I have just agreed to a further 12 months with a nice rate increase ...

I hope your budget is increasing, or (at least) the ease with which you'll live within your original budget.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I hope your budget is increasing, or (at least) the ease with which you'll live within your original budget.

My budget has been see sawing over the past 11 months, but thankfully 11 months of procrastinating has helped boost the coffers

I am a little worried that regardless of what boat I buy, old or newish, I'll end up blowing my budget by spending way too much on equipping the boat with the latest and greatest gadgets I don't really need

[avb3]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Yes, but even an old curmudgeon like you would have bought a new car sometime in your life and relished the new car smell as you ripped the protective plastic off the seat and excitedly read the instruction manual for the first (and last) time. How you listened to the non-existent engine noise as the new engine hispered into life and how the suspension felt so wonderfully springy. Remember how proud you were when you pulled up at the Gas station first time to fell 'er up, and your pride didn't even slip when you pulled in the side opposite the filler hole: 'its brand new' you explain.

I made the mistake of buying a new Audi back in 1974... that was the last new car I ever bought. I have never had payments since, often buy used ones at auctions (I budget $1500 for repairs and if they're no good.. back to the auction they go).

Since then I have had all sorts of cars and trucks, and you know what, after a month, all cars are used anyways.

I could never see me buying a new boat for much the same reason. The mechanical things I can figure out or have an expert figure out, the electronics either are newer or they will be, and as someone else pointed out, if the fiberglass is not bubbling, it probably never will.

Now, rigging, chainplates and sails are another matter, but that comes down to pricing or negotiations doesn't it?

[Drew13440]

Now, rigging, chainplates and sails are another matter, but that comes down to pricing or negotiations doesn't it?

Yep. Sometimes necessary upgrades are priced in, sometimes not. Just like buying a house.

[Kettlewell]

I've met several people who had many and expensive problems (and time consuming) with brand new boats, and frequently there are issues in getting proper warranty repair. Just for example, it is hard to find any repair yard to do work correctly, so you end up having to redo it yourself. Plus, if something breaks down when you're in the San Blas Islands you have to bring the boat back to Florida to get it fixed--not always practical. In my experience, having bought and owned 8 old cruising boats they are definitely the cheaper way to go in the long or short run. For one thing, you can buy about five used boats for the price of one new one in many cases. Most newer boats are vastly more complicated than older boats and the complicated systems are where the cost is in maintenance. My current boat is a 1978 and so far the most expensive single repair was to the exhaust system while in Panama at a cost of around $1500, which is probably less than a lot of folks spend on insurance per year, which I don't carry. A lot of the money I've spent on the boat was for routine maintenance or upgrades that a new boat would require for cruising.

[ty.gregory]

I have read this post with great interest. I hear both sides. I still don't know who is right, meaning, I still don't know WHAT is right. I have a question: I can't fix things. I don't fix things. I would like learning how to fix things, I suppose, but so far have always paid others to do the work for me. I can paint and sand with the best, (well maybe not "the best") but I can and will do that. Because of this lacking in my chemical make-up, I am now wondering if this long time dream of cruising is for me. Now comes the question... Should a person who has no knowledge, ability, or confidence in fixing things that seem to constantly break on a boat even be thinking about buying one, cruising on one, and living on one?

[Janice]

I am not going to slam boat brands but....

Which would you rather own? A 30 year old Volvo or Pinto?

[matauwhi]

G'day, mates. I bought a well cared for Mason 53 over 12 years ago and have reaped the reward of the previous owners attention to her upkeep. It is even better condition now. I would NOT hesitate to buy an older, sound, well cared for yacht again in a heartbeat. Cheers.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Janice

I am not going to slam boat brands but....

Which would you rather own? A 30 year old Volvo or Pinto?

LOL.. in my part of the world the Volvo would have rusted away, and the Pinto.. .well... we know that story.

In all seriousness, if the quality is there to start with, it will probably be there now. Fortunately fiberglass does not rot or rust, and if it isn't blistering now, it probably won't.

Wonder what the resale on a 30 old Hinckley is versus a Hunter?

[SabreKai]

I'm not sure how to go about explaining this but I'll try. Talking about the false economy of buying an older boat vs. a newer one assumes you are in a position to be able to spend the greater amount of money for that newer boat. If thats the case, then I guess it comes down to whether or not you like to "work" on your boat or just sail it. If thats the case then go with the newer boat, less likely to be things needing fixing and you can spend more time sailing.

Now if you are like me, money is of great concern to me when I look at a boat. I'm not in the position where I can kick around the benefits of spending $100K vs $85K. Thats damn near my entire lifes budget for the whole deal, boat and years of living afterwards. So for me the best thing is to buy a cheaper older boat, knowing full well that I will be face with a fair amount of work in getting her ready to go out in the great wide world. The whole concept of it being a false economy rubs me the wrong way. Whose economy? Mine? No, its good economy to me, because I am getting a suitable boat cheaper, which allows me to get out on the water sooner rather than later or not at all, plus my economy puts a value on my skills which I can bring to bear on refits and what not. The trick is in paying a good price for what you get.

I'd fallen in love with Espina 6 years before I ended up buying her, and the only reason I did buy her is because the price came down to where I could do so. I was well aware of the warts n bumps, and since I enjoy working on her, its worth it to me. Every time I go down there and do a job, I come away with a great feeling of satisfaction, and accomplishment. (both feelings which are sadly lacking in my full time job) It may take me a year or two to get ready but I am on MY boat, not the banks.

So as to it being a false economy, No I don't think it is. It entirely depends on your personal circumstances and your personal comfort level with 'working' on a boat as opposed to 'playing' on a boat.


Sabre

[Kettlewell]

Should a person who has no knowledge, ability, or confidence in fixing things that seem to constantly break on a boat even be thinking about buying one, cruising on one, and living on one?

To be honest I would have to say no. The #1 reason people give me for ending cruising is the maintenance and repairs. However, I will qualify that. If you have lots of money you can pay others to do the work and cruise within the U.S., but you still need to know basic stuff like how to change the water impeller on your engine or you will occasionally be stranded someplace and possibly get into a dangerous situation. Outside of the U.S. all bets are off, except maybe within Europe where again you could cruise from marina to marina and get things fixed at a high cost. Even then, I find it is very difficult to find a skilled person to do work correctly and safely.

But don't think that buying a new boat will avoid breakdowns and maintenance issues. From the minute a boat is launched repairing things is basically a continuous process, moving from one thing to the next, handling the important things first. That is just the nature of boating, and in particular cruising.

[Drew13440]

I have a question: I can't fix things. I don't fix things. I would like learning how to fix things, I suppose, but so far have always paid others to do the work for me.

Well, you stay away from big, complicated boats. Unless you have a lot of money. And you don't stray far from competent help.