Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

[mako]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Maybe the OPs original question is too broad because rheee is such a broad definition of “cruising.”

Someone who does 3,000 + miles a year.
Someone who lives on the boat but not at a single location.
Someone who strays +100 miles from land.
A looper.
A Chesapeake Bay live aboard.
Someone who travels coastwise and lives on his boat.

Just a few categories that come to mind.

Another consideration that affects size is the requirements of a significant partner. Accommodating someone who is not all that excited about boats (eg. a wife, husband, child, partner) might require providing them a sense of space, air conditioning, a level of privacy, medical needs, laundry, certain equipment, etc.

I lost the sale of my 65' to a very serious buyer because we couldn't accommodate his big screen (rear projection in those days) TV. Sure I still make fun of him to this day, on this thread, but that was his requirement to enjoy being out on the water. The point is that I believe there is greater wealth in our society these days and those persons are enjoying toys more. I would propose that wealthy, inexperienced boaters tend to buy bigger boats, and that these buyers perhaps make up a larger percentage of the buying market.

But that's just what I surmise, perhaps someone has actual stats.

[Fore and Aft]

Kenomac replying to your posts is starting to remind me of that time Michelle Obama wore $540 sneakers to the local Food Bank. We are just worlds apart on our views and incomes. Despite me agreeing to a fair few of your 9000+ posts
Cheers

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

A real example of what I mean is that for me to survey your 62 foot yacht would be $1240 but a 40 foot yacht is only $800. Here in Australia the insurance companys like a new survey every 5 years so thats an extra $88 a year for owning a 62 foot yacht?

Cheers

It pays to read the conditions.
This is the one from Club Marine

. A survey can be completed by any Qualified Marine Surveyor. Alternatively, a Local Shipwright can complete the Risk Evaluation report. Please note, both report types require the boat be inspected out of the water.

The local shipwright firm we use to do our out of water work filled out the form provided by the insurer at no additional cost.
Of course anything that was found and needed addressing was done and noted on the form.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by zboss

Think of it this way... dollar for dollar you are getting a lot more boat these days than you did in the past. If we were to have to purchase our 38 foot cabo rico in today’s dollars, it would probably sell in the 400’s... but instead you can now buy a 51 foot Jeanneau Sun Odessey for the same amount. So it’s not that the upper acceptable size has gone up it’s that buyers recognize the value they are getting for their equivalent dollar. Plus, let’s face it... there are lots of available mortgage options....

I would agree, but the order of decision making should be:
1. Decide on the boat’s size you really need. If you need a 38’ you don’t buy a 51’ for the same money...
2. Know your cash, in hand, budget to buy and refit
3. Get the best you can that matches #1,2.

And finally, the worse decision one can do is take a mortgage on a boat! Pay an interest on a continuously depreciated asset that needs constant maintenance is a very irresponsible course of thinking.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

It pays to read the conditions.
This is the one from Club Marine




The local shipwright firm we use to do our out of water work filled out the form provided by the insurer at no additional cost.
Of course anything that was found and needed addressing was done and noted on the form.

The boat was hauled out for each survey and everythng was gone through properly, but the surveyor saved lots of typing time with the basics already saved on his computer. There have been no surprises after nearly a year.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by DeValency

I would agree, but the order of decision making should be:
1. Decide on the boat’s size you really need. If you need a 38’ you don’t buy a 51’ for the same money...
2. Know your cash, in hand, budget to buy and refit
3. Get the best you can that matches #1,2.

And finally, the worse decision one can do is take a mortgage on a boat! Pay an interest on a continuously depreciated asset that needs constant maintenance is a very irresponsible course of thinking.

With boat loans currently available at 4-4.5 percent, why not use someone elses money to have some fun? Why would you place all your cash in a single depreciating asset when it can be put to work earning money spread out over several different investments that are hopefully, appreciating at a rate greater than 4.5 percent?

[NYSail]

Wife and I recently moved up from 36 to 43...... main consideration is that we love to cruise and will be on boat longer in near future .our 36 was a great boat and we did a full refit (person 36-2) but we could not get around the minimal tankage.... 20 fuel 20 waste 75 water. It restricted our travels. Now we have 150 water 50 waste 50 fuel which gives us significantly greater range..... those were the most significant factors.

also the ride is much nicer in heavy seas and she is so darn comfortable at anchor!
Greg

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The current dinghy on our Oyster 62 cost $1300 complete with a 15hp Like new Mercury 2 stroke. The dinghy on our Hunter 450 cost $1700 with a new Tohatsu 6.5hp.

I just purchased a like new Mercury 40hp 2 stroke for the dinghy on the 62 for $1200 to upgrade the set up. I know many who spend more than that on tenders for much smaller boats including 40 footers.

Earlier today I purchased a KVH TracPhone V3ip sat internet dish and modem for $1800 complete with cables. If you check West Marine prices, the same set retails for $13,999.

I guess it pays to shop around... you should try it sometime.

Pretty condescending statement, but it has nothing to do with the fact that bigger boats cost more to keep in top condition. You should be careful about bragging online about how cheap the stuff is you put on your boat. It might scare the potential buyers of your 50footer Oyster you have for sale. They might not think it is up to Oyster standards.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Pretty condescending statement, but it has nothing to do with the fact that bigger boats cost more to keep in top condition. You should be careful about bragging online about how cheap the stuff is you put on your boat. It might scare the potential buyers of your 50footer Oyster you have for sale. They might not think it is up to Oyster standards.

Nothing condecending intending about offering up some sound advice, I can’t understand why you or anyone would take it that way and respond so negatively.

Nothing cheap about anything on either boat, but I simply don’t make a habit of paying retail was my point. But since you brought up Oyster, their after sales department is second to none, and many of the supplies and hard to get parts have been purchased directly from Oyster at very reasonable prices.

I was simply trying to pass on some good advice to folks with an open mind who might be interested in purchasing a larger boat of any make or model, as well as dispelling some of the often repeated internet myths. But seems now, that my time has been wasted, as the advice has been taken and manipulated the wrong way.... so I’ll move on.

[Fore and Aft]

Simi60 on page 1 of the Club Marine Risk Evaluation in Big Letters is the statement that vessels over 30 feet have to be surveyed by a qualified marine surveyor! That’s why your report is worth what you paid for it.....nothing.
I am a Club Marine approved surveyor and had to jump through a number of hoops including showing my current indemnity insurance policy.
Cheers

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Simi60 on page 1 of the Club Marine Risk Evaluation in Big Letters is the statement that vessels over 30 feet have to be surveyed by a qualified marine surveyor! That’s why your report is worth what you paid for it.....nothing.
I am a Club Marine approved surveyor and had to jump through a number of hoops including showing my current indemnity insurance policy.
Cheers

You mean like this page one?

That's the form they sent us and accepted for our coverage with them.

Its also on their website
https://www.clubmarine.com.au/specialconditions

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But who really cares about the price per unit sail area? We care about how much the bloody thing costs to replace. And looking at your data (and at many years of buying sails myself) the cost of replacement goes up at a greater rate than the length.

It is foolish to say that bigger boats cost less to run and maintain than smaller ones. Arguing about the amount of difference is OK by me, but despite some specious claims, bigger ain't cheaper when one looks at the overall costs over time.

Yes, no argument here.

I think I've had the wrong impression, myself, that when size increases the costs go up astronomically, and that there's a huge difference in costs between having a 40ft and 50ft sailboat.

A more realistic view might be that when looking at area, volume and tonnage increases (not just length), there isn't really anything mysterious going on. While the costs obviously go up, they may stay the same or even go down when calculated per area/volume.

It's not all linear (all exponential) either, but I'm sure there are lots of costs that jump up to another level once some threshold has been crossed. When the boat gets to heavy to be lifted with what generally is available at yards, too beamy to fit into normal slips, etc.

I guess the production boat builders have been able to change the upper bound as well? Both through lower total costs and through having manufacturing processes/ability that keep the cost increases/length/volume decent?

[Fore and Aft]

I see that form a lot Simi60. But when you google Club Marine Risk evaluation form you get the same page but with the sentence “Note: Boats over 30ft must be surveyed by a qualified marine surveyor” this is direct from their website.
I think the issue is that some rogues just fill out the forms without ever seeing the boat. I personally know one boat builder who would fill out the forms without ever seeing the boat!
I personally hate this form as it is such a vague survey. Club Marine has rung me a number of times asking for more photos and details when a claim has been made.
Cheers

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

How many times in the lifetime of a mainsail would it ever be removed from the boom/lazyjack bag and if it was required you take a berth and get the sail maker down to help and take it away.

I remove my mainsail every Winter up here, and also before hurricanes.

During a tack, a winch handle is used only for the last foot or so of mainsheet when the wind is up

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I remove my mainsail every Winter up here, and also before hurricanes.

During a tack, a winch handle is used only for the last foot or so of mainsheet when the wind is up

Why.??? You should be able to do that as you tack.. Sheet the main in by hand as the nose comes up to the wind then ease out to suit as you approach the new heading. Leaves you free to concentrate on the flogging jib and getting that sheeted while still being powered by the main.
Assuming I understood your post.