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Old 09-01-2019, 15:25   #91
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Originally Posted by KiwiKen View Post
Increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially.


I have always favoured 32 - 37 feet, gear is lighter and more manageable, boat more manoeverable, and costs affordable, easier to manage single handed.



If one wants all the comforts and convenience of home, why go cruising
Total nonesense. This notion of “increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially” has been discussed on this forum many times. Just the opposite is true. Smaller boats actually have a much higher proportional annual maintenance cost if you run the numbers, especially if one purchases a 30-50 year old fixer-upper.

Many times, larger boats have systems onboard which actually help to reduce costs, such as watermakers, generators and a larger fuel capacity that will enable them to remain out in anchorages and not have to come into marinas.
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:49   #92
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Maybe the OPs original question is too broad because rheee is such a broad definition of “cruising.”

Someone who does 3,000 + miles a year.
Someone who lives on the boat but not at a single location.
Someone who strays +100 miles from land.
A looper.
A Chesapeake Bay live aboard.
Someone who travels coastwise and lives on his boat.

Just a few categories that come to mind.
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:59   #93
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

all the above
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:29   #94
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pirate Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Total nonesense. This notion of “increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially” has been discussed on this forum many times. Just the opposite is true. Smaller boats actually have a much higher proportional annual maintenance cost if you run the numbers, especially if one purchases a 30-50 year old fixer-upper.

Many times, larger boats have systems onboard which actually help to reduce costs, such as watermakers, generators and a larger fuel capacity that will enable them to remain out in anchorages and not have to come into marinas.
Keno.. coming into a marina in Europe for fuel and water does not involve any more than paying for the fuel.. then one heads back out to an anchorage..
Electric has never been a problem with a wind generator.. and a damn sight quieter than some of the diesel gennies going on some anchorages at 6am as they get their batteries back up.
Some like big boats.. some like small.
Personally if a house or a boats got more space than I need for a bed, kitchen, toilet and lounge its to big for me and I dislike mowing lawns so a cockpit I can lay in with a nice view is plenty good enough.
Some like Mercedes.. I'm happy with a Skoda.. not fat enough for a Merc..
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:30   #95
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

kevinof asked why must we sacrifice?

To me, the question itself is really representative of where a number of potential cruisers are at. We mustn't, but one does choose to make compromises when limited $$ are part of the equation.

Basically, at least to me, the answer to that question lies in another question: how much time and how much money do you have, what are your boat maintenance skills, and what are your cruising goals? I know it's a three part question, but it is all inter-related. The larger and more complex it is, the more it costs in time and $$ for repairs and updating, especially with brand new boats that often don't come all right from the factories...which is why many new owners will not take delivery until the new boat passes survey.

Here's an example of a modern day "sacrifice". I do not have a washing machine on board. The idea would have been ludicrous 40 yrs. ago, for all but the largest cruising boats. Why I have never asked Jim to add a washing machine for this boat is more complicated. To be able to wash at will, we would also need to add a genset and a watermaker. [weight, complication] By the time the additional holes in the boat have been made and the layout modified, and the hanging locker and its contents done away with (gotta make space for washi-moto), you're talking a big chunk of money, time, frustration with waiting on others for deliveries and job completion, marina bills, etc. So for me, even though it is theoretically possible it could be added, the trade off of other values leads me away from the washing machine. One makes COMPROMISES, because going smaller, with less stuff means you can get out there and explore and have an extraordinary level of freedom and satisfaction without spending the big bucks that some others choose to spend.

There are many costs of boat ownership that are ongoing: marina fees or mooring fees many places, insurances of various kinds, but the most noxious of all, is hanging around depending on someone else who is already behind schedule to finish up, whether it is repairs, re-fits, or installing new *stuff*. Way better if you can get stuck into it and do it yourself. Which for "professional people" means what they might consider a step down, to "mechanic-ing" or "electrician-ing" or "plumber-ing." So, imho, some professionals look down on the trades and are disinterested to learn. They pay, in terms of time spent not sailing, not enjoying freedom, lying in marinas overseeing jobs, jobs that multiply with the complexity of the boat.

It is wisdom to go small and simple, where those values appeal to you.

Ann
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:38   #96
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Oh Mike - you're such an iconoclast :-0)!!

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Old 09-01-2019, 16:42   #97
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Quote: "Innocent buyers are extremely vulnerable to sales hype..."

Precisely, Ann :-)! From a marketing man's perspective, there is nothing better than "selling into a market of ignorance". Absolutely like taking candy from kids!

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Old 09-01-2019, 16:46   #98
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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You need to get out more.....
Sounds like you are not enjoying your job as a nurse anymore.
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:53   #99
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pirate Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Sounds like you are not enjoying your job as a nurse anymore.

I didn't used to like my job that much either back in the day but being forced to learn electronics, electrical systems, computers, flight simulators, and then having to hire the people to maintain our systems I started to somewhat enjoy it
When you've set a quit the job date the time drags heavy.. he's twitching with eagerness to begin the ***** hospitality lifestyle..
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:54   #100
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
kevinof asked why must we sacrifice?

To me, the question itself is really representative of where a number of potential cruisers are at. We mustn't, but one does choose to make compromises when limited $$ are part of the equation.

Basically, at least to me, the answer to that question lies in another question: how much time and how much money do you have, what are your boat maintenance skills, and what are your cruising goals? I know it's a three part question, but it is all inter-related. The larger and more complex it is, the more it costs in time and $$ for repairs and updating, especially with brand new boats that often don't come all right from the factories...which is why many new owners will not take delivery until the new boat passes survey.

Here's an example of a modern day "sacrifice". I do not have a washing machine on board. The idea would have been ludicrous 40 yrs. ago, for all but the largest cruising boats. Why I have never asked Jim to add a washing machine for this boat is more complicated. To be able to wash at will, we would also need to add a genset and a watermaker. [weight, complication] By the time the additional holes in the boat have been made and the layout modified, and the hanging locker and its contents done away with (gotta make space for washi-moto), you're talking a big chunk of money, time, frustration with waiting on others for deliveries and job completion, marina bills, etc. So for me, even though it is theoretically possible it could be added, the trade off of other values leads me away from the washing machine. One makes COMPROMISES, because going smaller, with less stuff means you can get out there and explore and have an extraordinary level of freedom and satisfaction without spending the big bucks that some others choose to spend.

There are many costs of boat ownership that are ongoing: marina fees or mooring fees many places, insurances of various kinds, but the most noxious of all, is hanging around depending on someone else who is already behind schedule to finish up, whether it is repairs, re-fits, or installing new *stuff*. Way better if you can get stuck into it and do it yourself. Which for "professional people" means what they might consider a step down, to "mechanic-ing" or "electrician-ing" or "plumber-ing." So, imho, some professionals look down on the trades and are disinterested to learn. They pay, in terms of time spent not sailing, not enjoying freedom, lying in marinas overseeing jobs, jobs that multiply with the complexity of the boat.

It is wisdom to go small and simple, where those values appeal to you.

Ann
Ann,

Our washing machine would cost $700 if I purchased it brand new today, but I didn’t since it was included on the boat we purchased seven years ago. It did break down one time, and I was as able to replace the Splendide motherboard myself in 15 minutes for $175.

How much time and money have you spent over the past 7 years toting clean and dirty laundry around whilst keeping things simple? Seems to me that having a washing machine onboard has kept our lives much simpler than yours....

Ken
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Old 09-01-2019, 16:58   #101
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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all the above
Yes all the above, but how is boat size changing for each catagory, or are they all moving together?
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Old 09-01-2019, 17:00   #102
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pirate Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Ann,

Our washing machine would cost $700 if I purchased it brand new today, but I didn’t since it was included on the boat we purchased seven years ago. It did break down one time, and I was as able to replace the Splendide motherboard myself in 15 minutes for $175.

How much time and money have you spent over the past 7 years toting clean and dirty laundry around whilst keeping things simple? Seems to me that having a washing machine onboard has kept our lives much simpler than yours....

Ken
Ken.. laundry costs a bottle of wine.. which I drink while dancing in the tub of soapy water and laundry to some nice boppy music.. Cheap and fun..
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Old 09-01-2019, 17:01   #103
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Sounds like you are not enjoying your job as a nurse anymore.
I enjoy my job, the people I work with and the patients very much, not sure why you’d think otherwise or consider my career as part of this discussion? I find it very rewarding both financially and emotionally... you should try it sometime. It’s also a career I can come back to at anytime to help refill a cruising kitty.
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Old 09-01-2019, 17:02   #104
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

About 6 years ago Sail magazine published an article titled "50's is the new 40s" or something like that. They cited growing affluence and demand for larger more luxurious yacht's as the cause for boat builders supplying 50ft plus boats built, with the aid of power technology, for two crew.
While I get that greedyism, huh scratch that, capitalism has most of us always wanting more, there are real safety concerns and I was angry that Sail didn't point them out. Technology will fail, not an if, but when. And that 70 year old couple is going to be in real trouble when their thousand square foot genny won't furl and the winds are building into the 30s... I consider my roller furling the most dangerous item on my Tartan 41 as I have had the unpleasant experience of my double reefed genny going instantly to full sail in 30 knots, 3am, 500miles from land due to chafed through furling line. Not fun, but I was able to go forward and manually turn the drum. Not sure if that 70 year old with a sail double the size is going to have the ability to deal with the problem when the power furled or winch, etc. Decides to quit.
That said.... I want to cruise during the day more and therefore have the need for speed. Length = speed. 100 miles between St.Martin and USVI now means an over night sail for me. Get a boat that will cruise at 10knots and you can do it as a day trip... there is something to be said for speed.. weather is less of a concern. Fast cats that do 20knots can sail away from hurricanes and big monos can to a lesser degree.
After living aboard my 41ft for 7 months now, I'm beginning to think that maybe 50ft isn't too big to sail.. Haha, too big for my wallet for sure!
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Old 09-01-2019, 17:04   #105
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

My point was not that it was simple, but that the sum of the costs of remodeling much of the interior of an exceptionally well built boat--and having it done to a similar standard of excellence, just to have a washing machine, did not pass my reasonability standards. Others might well find it an acceptable compromise to go ahead and have the work done. Shipwrights are dear, and time is running out.

Ann
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