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Old 09-01-2019, 13:38   #76
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Apparently you're not getting the point I've been trying to make... the larger boats out cruising are.... OUT CRUISING in warmer places where the food is more tasty and there's more to see. YOU will never see them in your local marina!

High temps in the low 50's and cold water sucks, unless one doesn't know any better.
As I have been telling you, cruising and being stuck on a slow boat isn't for everyone! Plus I've already lived where many go to cruise.

I also got to see the Snow Birds "flock" to Arizona in Winter back in the 1970's. Many would just pull off in the desert and setup house keeping in their RV's. They called it "fun!?"

Food more tasty? There's nothing better than Eastern Shore Oysters or soft crabs from the Chesapeake Bay. Then there's all the fresh vegetables grown on the shore that are available in season
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Old 09-01-2019, 13:39   #77
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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As I have been telling you, cruising stuck on a slow boat isn't for everyone!

Food more tasty? There's nothing better than Eastern Shore Oysters or soft crabs from the Chesapeake Bay
You need to get out more.....
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Old 09-01-2019, 13:40   #78
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Maintenance, that’s another issue. Now I’m pretty cheap, because I have to be, and I maintain our boats pretty much myself. I’m amidst repainting the decks, spent some real quality time with my sander for a few days, then it quit and I bought a new one. I’m putting down anti-skid as we type.

So we have a 33’er and a 44’er. The Wife prefers the 33 for sailing but the 44 for living on. So the 33 is in Newfoundland where we have a cabin and mostly do day sails, but we have some hopes of venturing further afield into Labrador.

We have under $150k in purchase price for both boats combined. Sailing in Newfoundland is outstanding. True no bars, night life and you don’t wanna see the bikinis. But the scenery and landscape and anchorages are among the very best anywhere. Having smaller older boats let’s us have two boats and explore vastly different locations that would not be reasonably possible otherwise.

We met a couple with custom Bestever 52 and they plan to sail to Newfoundland for the summer. Big powerful boat, I love one, but way outside our price range and the Wife hates overnighters anyway. So there’s that. We are doing our Windward run by 737 and a beater Nissan Pathfinder.

Ken,

Main and Nova Scotia are nice and have their charms. Especially the Bras d Or. but they are only opening acts for Newfoundland.
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Old 09-01-2019, 13:53   #79
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Paulo,
BIG disCUSSion on the Jeanneau-owners site re the red fuel. Seems like US, Canada, UK sell red dyed diesel when no road tax's are paid. Meanwhile, Netherlands is fining folks BIG time for any trace of red dye in the fuel system. Really bad for those in the UK, as no clear/green/blue'ish diesel is sold at the marina's. So for me, If i took off for europe from where I am, I'm in deep shista trouble! As my marina only sells red dyed diesel, due to no road taxes being paid! Which for the boat, bobcat, trackhoe that I have that are diesel, I do not need to pay.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sailn...2.html%3famp=1
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:03   #80
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Personally, I enjoy these types of threads.
“So what's going on here?” “And “I can think of some explanations:” ….. usually draws feedback, which is the point to starting a thread. Rarely singular opinions stand unchallenged, that would be more of a closed door like written articles such as in magazines yet, as inspiration to start a thread which forums need, is a good opening and one I think the authors would appreciate. A thread starts intending to generate engagement, agree with and or disagree, agreeing to disagree, that and more represents the very heartbeat that is a forum. OP in my opinion is a Champ because he continues to engage without diminishing input; nice to trip into a politely managed thread, my opinion.

That said from my prospective as someone wanting to come back to sailing after family and business life winds down; I found a difficult decision has been made only more difficult by the volume of information now filling in the gaps of having lost out over the years of not sailing!
I thought at first a 38’ was quite generous and, a 36’ if the family chose not to venture off with me would be lots of boat for this mature fellow to handle, hmm?

Most of us who have either dropped out or just decided to jump in to sailing will do mountains of research looking for answers to many questions first of which are around the fears of the unknown. Would this forum not agree that the most frequent newbie questions start with “what the best blue water….” It doesn’t take long during a newbies research to come across the lessons preached or the changes to, of what constitutes a relatively sounder decision to go to sea in as in the greater stability offered by better designs or long water lines after the 98 S.H. Race?

Design stability is too complex a subject to understand for newbies as is form stability verse deep righting arms, or the trade-offs in displacement, above or below water line and all those other trades like wetted area, drag, static or dynamic, sterns at anchor or in following seas, iron verses lead, why is there more or less power out of a stern? So the answer must first lie in concluding bigger is better gentlemen? Sure one can and many have gone where few dare to in a small boats but, that’s a wet bumpy and cramped ride so, why put yourself through that after such a major purchasing decision?

In my case to find answers I chose to study, mind you not to talk above my station but to get a better understanding and appreciation of those lines from man’s sailing history to present day designs, form mono to multi, and back to mono.

I can say now that most 38’s would not be enough for me and that a 42’ is now my new minimum but, that a 44/45’ hits that sweet spot for me. This way I can have enough beam without much loss of sea keeping, bold enough to take a chit kicking, a bow design to gently enough keep the fight going (no plumb or reverse for me), a stern strong yet forgiving enough to stand off a pounding yet not cause me to stall in lite winds, enough camber throughout to distribute those potentials, a semi balanced skeg hung, wing not fin or ¾’s,
Dark blue hull, air conditioned, autopilot and finally a platinum blonde 1st mate to to depress those which buttons for me, please.

Having hopefully caused some of you to smile there, I note that Dudley Dix with his DD 38 Black Cat design originally built for his personal requirements, sailed safely both in comfort and at speed, some through parts of the Sothern Ocean. Later that design was stretched out to a 40’ for a broader cruising market. There’s more to his story in a book he wrote but just to say a 38 can fulfill expiation's given reasonable trade-offs.
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:13   #81
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Not enough 30' boats around, or do you really think you are going to reinvent the wheel and make it 5 sided or something?
I have a specific set of requirements and desire a good challenge. I'm bored seeing normal layouts and want to try some interesting ideas simmering in my head. It's about using things and concepts that already exist in the world and applying them were I think they may work (with perhaps a little invention along the way). If there are boats anything like what I am cooking up then there aren't that many and I would be hard pressed to get my hands on one.

I was all about buying a used boat and refitting it but suddenly one day my mind changed. Without going into my life story I'll just say that I have the training to do this, though I lack experience, and feel that my life has been leading me to this decision for a LONG time.

Back to the OP, I was just trying to add some food for thought on this thread. People want bigger boats now but what if boats could be physically smaller while still being exceptionally comfortable. Maybe the desired size of boat for a cruising couple would decrease. It's just something I'm working on and thought it could be a little pertinent to the subject. My wife and I are a couple trying to cruise the world but going against apparent trends wrt boat size.

Maybe the industry does need to reinvent the wheel. Seems like the downward trend in boating and boat sales that's been discussed here isn't slowing down at all. Perhaps some major changes need to be made if it ever hopes to recover.
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:20   #82
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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...Main and Nova Scotia are nice and have their charms. Especially the Bras d Or. but they are only opening acts for Newfoundland.


You sun bunnies can have your warm water and urban places to go “sightseeing” . I am surrounded by beauty all the time up north in Newfoundland. No crowds. Heck, there’s rarely another boat to be seen. Just whales and seals, moose and caribou, and bird life of all sorts.

As for good food, there is nothing finer than fresh caught cod or wild chanterelles picked right off the shore I’m anchored beside.

Northern cruising is not for everyone, which I am eternally glad about .
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:21   #83
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

I have come late to this discussion, but will add a few comments. Here are Jammer's original assertions, to help me stay focused.

1. The original thinking was unnecessarily conservative, and with time, we've figured that out.
2. The availability and reliability of power assistance has improved enough to change the perceived limits, with electric winches, bow thrusters, and power sail handling becoming common.
3. People are sailing in boats larger than what they can handle safely because they insist on vessels large enough to provide creature comforts that previous generations of cruisers lived without.
4. Today's cruiser is more able bodied and therefore able to handle a larger boat.
5. Cruisers are no longer engaging in voyages to areas remote enough to require the level of self-sufficiency previously considered necessary, and are bringing on crew for the rare passage they undertake that takes them beyond the sheltering wings of Sea Tow.

-------------

1. Not at all. It took time to transition from timber boats to grp. There are still quite seaworthy pocket cruisers, and on up. Some people find virtue in having a small footprint, and are content living with less *stuff*. It is the development of SatNav and then GPS which made for a bloom in cruisers. Freedom from dealing with celestial navigation was a huge change. And now, I think having a larger boat than about 50 ft. has become a way of "counting coup", so to speak. So, imo, there is an aspect of braggadocio with the ownership of very large boats, but also, for people who have lots of money, why should they not get what appeals to them?

2. No. It isn't the power, because larger mechanical winches can be fitted to smaller, high displacement for size boats. However, there is not an established market for such items, at the same time that relatively inexperienced people are buying larger first boats. My point here is that they don't know how to use lines to help control boats in docking and undocking, therefore want bow thrusters, to cover lack of skill in boat handling. Of course, not true for all, but it is a factor.

3. Innocent buyers are extremely vulnerable to sales hype, and do not seem to read threads like "Cracked Saloon Windows on xxx boat" , etc., so are not informed in advance of problems people have with production marques.

4. No. A lot of people who take up sailing after their kids have left university are not young, fit, and beautiful to view. In fact, when we started cruising, we met a number of couples cruising in 20-22 ft. foot boats. We don't see them these days, but they may be disinterested in oldies, so that's just a remark, not a data point.

5. Some cruisers seek out a circumnavigation as a sort of bucket list goal; others, want just to schmooze around and see a bit of the world; some want to display their wealth; some stay local, coastal, never leave their native land; and some do go to places requiring a high level of competency and preparedness, too. Most recently, I offer for your consideration Seaworthy Lass and Noelex, and the Bestevaer 49 thread (CF Custom Google Search). People who are in the process, and busy getting ready to cruise even further off the beaten path, whom CF is lucky to have as contributors.

Ann
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:23   #84
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially.


I have always favoured 32 - 37 feet, gear is lighter and more manageable, boat more manoeverable, and costs affordable, easier to manage single handed.



If one wants all the comforts and convenience of home, why go cruising
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:24   #85
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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You sun bunnies can have your warm water and urban places to go “sightseeing” . I am surrounded by beauty all the time up north in Newfoundland. No crowds. Heck, there’s rarely another boat to be seen. Just whales and seals, moose and caribou, and bird life of all sorts.

As for good food, there is nothing finer than fresh caught cod or wild chanterelles picked right off the shore I’m anchored beside.

Northern cruising is not for everyone, which I am eternally glad about .
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See you Juneish I hope!
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:37   #86
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No, Marigot Bay. Allergic to marinas. Too cheap and can’t back up.
Good man.. if Serafinas is back up and running give em a try.. Great food.
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Old 09-01-2019, 14:46   #87
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Why must we sacrifice?



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Increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially.


I have always favoured 32 - 37 feet, gear is lighter and more manageable, boat more manoeverable, and costs affordable, easier to manage single handed.



If one wants all the comforts and convenience of home, why go cruising
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:00   #88
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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If one wants all the comforts and convenience of home, why go cruising
It's a silly question normally. Because we want to cruise and there's no reason it needs to be camping on the water.

I am entertained by people arguing cruising and what cruisers want with people don't haven't cruiser and/or have posted how they aren't interested in cruising (they of course still have all the answers).
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:19   #89
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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You sun bunnies can have your warm water and urban places to go “sightseeing” . I am surrounded by beauty all the time up north in Newfoundland. No crowds. Heck, there’s rarely another boat to be seen. Just whales and seals, moose and caribou, and bird life of all sorts.

As for good food, there is nothing finer than fresh caught cod or wild chanterelles picked right off the shore I’m anchored beside.

Northern cruising is not for everyone, which I am eternally glad about .
You and Thomm need to get out more....
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Old 09-01-2019, 15:22   #90
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Re: Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

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Increased size, maintenance cost increase exponentially.
Maybe, maybe not, all depends, many variables.
Perhaps you need to look at things from a different angle?

I see newer smaller boats both sail and power that cost many times more to purchase than our older, but recently refitted giantess.
Most of them go back to a marina at the end of the day as well, so even more expense.
And most of them then jump in a car and go back to a house to live, so even more expense.
And then head off to work on Monday to find more money.

The savings we have over them (monies we don't have to find) pays for maintenance, fuel, food etc living on our giantess in comfort.

The way we see it is we are actually saving money on a bigger boat and, we don't have to go to work.


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If one wants all the comforts and convenience of home, why go cruising
Where is it written that I have to become a cave dweller to go cruising?
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