Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

[B23iL23]

Spot on. Couldn't agree more. So long as the boat has the right handling gear, it should be manageable by two people.

Originally Posted by Capdave360

In 1987 I ran a 78' ketch (90' overall) with a single cook/stew (a young lady who weighed in at about 95 lbs). That 80 ton boat was all furling sails, all hydraulic winches. We sailed her many thousands of miles just the two of us. All coastal sailing, with or without owners, was just the two of us. We took crew offshore. And we got plenty of boatyard and day labor help as needed to maintain her and do the heavy jobs.

I was in a boatyard yesterday, and there she was. Looking pretty good for the age, I must say. Chatted with the crew - they're still running pretty much the same program, just the two of them. They race her though, and carry a full crew for that.

My point is that with the proper gear you can cruise almost anything short handed. The real measure is how much boat do you want to take care of? That boat was waaaay more than a full time job for two people to care for.

I think boats have actually gotten easier to take care of, with better materials and devices. My personal limit is I don't want caring for my liveaboard cruising boat to be more than a roughly 1/3 time job for the two of us. That's all up, from cleaning to yard periods, and everything in between. So if we average about 700 hours/year each that suits us. Oh - and we have no exterior woodwork!

[DeValency]

Well, there isn’t a single point. It is a matter of multiple factors, such as the age and condition of all the parties involved - e.g the couple, the boat and their shared bank account....

Yes, a smaller boat could potentially be easier to deal with physically when things go wrong, but at least for me, I would still prefer the comfort of a 40’+ well maintained and familiar to the last screw cruiser. But this is really my very strange taste...

Originally Posted by Jammer

Well, the consensus I feel is emerging from this is that that there's no safety-related reason for a couple to stick to smaller (<40' or so) boats.


It does occur to me that there must be some point at which the size of the boat makes some mistakes and system failures more critical. How large of an anchor can a couple reasonably raise without a windlass? At what point can a couple no longer safely lash a sail when its furler has jammed? At what point is it no longer feasible for one or two people to remove and replace a mainsail? Maybe it's possible to make it all the way into superyacht territory before reaching these points, but I don't think so.

[Cheechako]

Furling sails, self tailing winches etc help. But still, I think it's a fallacy. You CAN sail a 50 footer as an old couple. Whether you SHOULD is another question. But with good weather planning etc, it's not likely to be a big problem... and let's face it, sailing isn't without risks.
As a couple , our 47 footer was too much to handle in strong wind. There were times with a 115-120% jib, big multi speed winches and a two hand handle I could not rotate the winch with both hands and foot on the coaming.
It's all fine until it isn't. BUT as mentioned above, it's hard to go smaller, more confined and slower.
PS: I had as much, maybe more, fun in my 30 footer before I got spoiled.

[Jim Cate]

There were times with a 115-120% jib, big multi speed winches and a two hand handle I could not rotate the winch with both hands and foot on the coaming.

Yep, that has happened to us as well... and that's when we furl the genoa and switch to the Solent jib or revert to mainsail (deeply reefed) alone. And little, if any, boat speed is lost, and crew effort is sharply reduced.

Jim

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Spot on. Couldn't agree more. So long as the boat has the right handling gear, it should be manageable by two people.

Until its not

Part of the reason of going for a powered vessel this time around was simplicity.

Always dreaded the thought of my wife and I manhandling rig and sails or worse being forced to attempt repairs in semi remote areas on a 60ft something sailing vessel if something went wrong with all that hydraulic/electric powered winching/furling gear.

I have sailed on a manually winched 60fter before and while manageable for deck apes, it was a long slow torturous process for those with less than gorilla like attributes.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Until its not

Part of the reason of going for a powered vessel this time around was simplicity.

Always dreaded the thought of my wife and I manhandling rig and sails or worse being forced to attempt repairs in semi remote areas on a 60ft something sailing vessel if something went wrong with all that hydraulic/electric powered winching/furling gear.

I have sailed on a manually winched 60fter before and while manageable for deck apes, it was a long slow torturous process for those with less than gorilla like attributes.

Says the man who mocked those that gave those reasons for large boats being possibly bigger than safely operable by the average couple..

[Kenomac]

Some of you should come aboard so my wife can show you how things are done.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Says the man who mocked those that gave those reasons for large boats being possibly bigger than safely operable by the average couple..

Well, maybe need to define ‘large’. In our case the only physically difficult job is hand hoisting the 80 sqm ~800 sq ft mainsail, though easy and slower with the manual winch. So I guess we’re an n=1 example of a relatively large sailboat that is perfectly safe for a not so young couple to manage.

And the easier motion of our boat makes her IMO much safer than smaller alternatives in challenging conditions.

[john61ct]

I spent a few seasons helping Steve Schmidt race his 70' Santa Cruz, "Hotel California Too".

He lived aboard her a long time, pretty much full time I believe, toodling around between Florida and South America.

Never heard him mention it being a risky proposition?

https://www.sailblogs.com/sbgallery/...w/sbfaupki.jpg

[mglonnro]

Re the changing upper bound boat size, I have an anecdotal recollection from Finland and 1990s-2000s.

When I started out sailing (with an H boat) boats 40ft+ were "rich people's" boats. A 42-46ft Swan was a huge boat that seemed unobtainable but for the very few.

Then came the Bavarias (and probably also other production builds) and suddenly "everyone" had a 42-46ft Bavaria, and quite a few had the 50ft version.

I assume the switch from HR, Najad, Swan etc to Bavaria (and the others) meant an increase in boat size since it was possible to get much more feet per euro.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Says the man who mocked those that gave those reasons for large boats being possibly bigger than safely operable by the average couple..

Well, maybe need to define ‘large’. In our case the only physically difficult job is hand hoisting the 80 sqm ~800 sq ft mainsail, though easy and slower with the manual winch. So I guess we’re an n=1 example of a relatively large sailboat that is perfectly safe for a not so young couple to manage.

And the easier motion of our boat makes her IMO much safer than smaller alternatives in challenging conditions.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yep, that has happened to us as well... and that's when we furl the genoa and switch to the Solent jib or revert to mainsail (deeply reefed) alone. And little, if any, boat speed is lost, and crew effort is sharply reduced.

Jim

Right! Why fight a 110-120% genoa in weather when you can reef to the minimum sail area, or use an inner staysail and still fly comfortably? In fact, at such conditions a small sail area on a heavier longer boat makes things way more comfortable - and with your boat I’m sure you know it better than me...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Well, maybe need to define ‘large’. In our case the only physically difficult job is hand hoisting the 80 sqm ~800 sq ft mainsail, though easy and slower with the manual winch. So I guess we’re an n=1 example of a relatively large sailboat that is perfectly safe for a not so young couple to manage.

And the easier motion of our boat makes her IMO much safer than smaller alternatives in challenging conditions.

I sail big but still prefer owning small and I feel safe..
But then maybe thats because I have taken small into big water and not felt like I would die.
DH and I often disagree on this..

[Northbound44]

I would say MONEY [emoji383], When we were young, we dreamed having a bigger boat but money wasn’t so easy as it is today. Bigger boat is not only more expensive to buy but also the maintenance cost is exponential. This is one of the main reason why when you see a big boat bargain on the used market, there’s a lot of money to invest there after in repairs and updates.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Northbound44

I would say MONEY [emoji383], When we were young, we dreamed having a bigger boat but money wasn’t so easy as it is today. Bigger boat is not only more expensive to buy but also the maintenance cost is exponential. This is one of the main reason why when you see a big boat bargain on the used market, there’s a lot of money to invest there after in repairs and updates.

I'm sorry but that's just plain wrong. A marine head on a larger boat costs the same amount as on a much smaller boat, the same with everything else. Proportionally, the smaller boat costs more. The only difficulty we've found in owning a larger sized boat is finding haul out facilities in Northern North America where the marine industry seems to cater to boats under 50 feet, elsewhere it's not a problem.