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Old 07-03-2007, 16:52   #1
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CENTER OR AFT?

We are going to purchas a sailboat!!! We have a chanch to buy eather a perry 47CC cutter or a Cheoy Lee Perry Ketch 44 aft cockpit. The 44 is beauitiful and the 47 has been sitting for three years and needs a lot of work. I have always thought cc's were the way to go but I realy like the 44 wich is cruise ready. Both are 90k. Anyways what are the advatages and dis advantages of both and why? Thanks.
P.S. Does anybody know anything about Cheoy Lee's
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Old 07-03-2007, 17:59   #2
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I would take into consideration the rig more so than where the cockpit was located.
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Old 07-03-2007, 18:07   #3
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For best CC performance you need a long boat else it tends to mess up the below deck layout. When dealing with the choice of two older boats. First decide that both are acceptable, then look at the budget, then pick the one in better condition requiring the least amount of work. You may have to survey both of them to really know. Don't decide until you have a survey report in hand.

There are always more things that come up after the survey and you have to make the money part work else you'll be broke. So don't fall in love or be too prejudiced before the deal is completed. The best decision is often to walk away and start over. You should be ready to do that else you are not ready to sign a contract.
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Old 07-03-2007, 22:03   #4
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My best decision...

... about buying the boat that I ended up with was to do nothing.
I forgot about it for a few weeks, took a four week holiday and thought about the buy when I came back.

I made an offer of about half the asking price, haggled a little and (gulp) the boat was mine.

To me it comes down to price and time.

You need the cash (no borrowing) to buy the boat, cash for the initial changeover (when you get newbie rates), cash for necessary repairs/renovations/upgrades and your cruising kitty. Add it up and compare to what you have.

Yo also need the time to repair/renovate/upgrade the boat. Make a list of what needs to be done, allocate hours to each item and add up. Then compare your total with the time that you have available.

For comfort work out what will happen if your time is double or tripple your estimate. Do the same with your repair/renovate/upgrade pricing estimate.

Now you have a good idea of what will happen if you buy either of these boats. Think about it while you take the holiday.
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Old 07-03-2007, 23:16   #5
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IMHO is really all about looks and practicalities. I've owned both CC and AC yachts.
As a general statement, a centre cockpit is usually smaller and shallower than an aft cockpit on same sized boat. We found the central position actually quite nice when at sea and at anchor - but being smaller does mean its more crowded with crew.......
But whilst there are many aft cockpit boats with reasonable aft cabins underneath, one can usually get more room below decks and aft if you've a cetnre cockpit - but you also tend to get smaller saloons..........
So really you pays your money and you takes your choice.
As long as the lines are good either if fine - dependent on what preferences you have yourself.
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Old 08-03-2007, 21:44   #6
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Thanks guys, for the info. I am realy looking for more info about the pros and cons of the two layouts for offshore. I worry about the AC getting pooped in heavy folowing seas. I also worry about the CC being bad going to weather. Also the performance differences of the two.
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Old 08-03-2007, 21:57   #7
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CC's are GREAT going to weather. I've owned both and now have a 52CC.
Can't think of one disadvantage at sea. I think what you lose with a CC is DECK storage space as a trade off for interior volume and the nice aft cabin on most....and it is harder to dock them since you must remain at the wheel. Other than that...all I find is advantages and would never go back. I AM wondering however what kind and condition of 47CC you can get for less than $100k. I am thinking a project boat but maybe you have an in somewhere??
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:04   #8
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If the two hulls are same shape you'll get same performance upwind and down. If you are worried about getting pooped then the issue will not go away on a CC boat - same height transom will have a following sea run onto the aft deck and maybe even fill a CC.
And practically if that happens, most CC have smaller drains than possible with AC boats.
Good luck with your research
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Old 09-03-2007, 11:09   #9
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I like aft cockpits. Gives me a good view of all the things happening when I'm steering the boat. Large cabins in the ends of the boat don't take advantage of the characteristics of motion while you are sailing. Better to have your berths to the center of the boat. Lots of storage in the ends of the boat also collect weight which creates hobby horsing in seas.

I guess I'm just trying to justify why I don't like CCs vers ACs. I've sailed on both and prefer the layout of ACs.

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Old 10-03-2007, 00:02   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagman
If you are worried about getting pooped then the issue will not go away on a CC boat - same height transom will have a following sea run onto the aft deck and maybe even fill a CC.
That depends on the height of the waves that are giving you problems. I've been out in weather where the waves were coming over the front and the back of the boat (not at the same time; we changed course) -- not by a lot, but enough that there was water running around on deck most of the time.

I was perfectly dry in the center cockpit. The waves would make a big splash when they hit the boat, but the splash rarely made it to the cockpit from either end of the boat. Also, the water running over the deck never came into the cockpit because it wouldn't run uphill. You can see how the cockpit is much higher than the deck in the picture at
http://www.beneteauusa.com/wps/wcm/c...neteau42cctest

Afterward, I couldn't help drawing a comparison with some aft cockpit boats I sailed on.

My previous boat was an aft-cockpit Catalina 34. I would have been soaked by spray and all the water running around on the deck would have been in the cockpit and running over my feet as it drained out the walk-through transom.

The other was an Island Packet 45 that I had took some instruction on. The stern is fairly high, but any water that gets over the rail can only go into the cockpit. Since the steering station is only 2 feet from the stern, I would have been splashed a lot.

Quote:
And practically if that happens, most CC have smaller drains than possible with AC boats.
I don't recall the cockpit drains on the IP45 being much better than my Beneteau. There were holes in the bottom of the cockpit that connected to hoses that led somewhere. In my 42 CC, they go straight out the bottom of the boat. I think the IP45 hoses met up with through-hulls on the sides, but I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskfreedom
Anyways what are the advatages and dis advantages of both and why?
A couple of other things that I like about my center cockpit boat:

- The view from the helm is excellent. I like being up higher. You can see further when at sea. I also find that the better view makes it easier to dock.

- The space under the cockpit is not really usable for anything else, so I have a real engine room. The floor of the cockpit lifts out, so it is easy to get big things like a generator in/out.

- I have a forward steering station. The wheel is on the forward wall of the cockpit, so you are under the dodger if you are at the helm.

- If you're sleeping in the aft cabin, somebody making a moderate amount of noise in the main cabin doesn't bother you. (The engine room is between you, and it is full of sound-suppressing insulation.)

For disadvantages:

- It has hydraulic steering, which meant the autopilot was more expensive. Also, the hydraulic fluid is supposed to be changed periodically - 3-5 years maybe?

- I've heard that being up higher is more likely to make you seasick. I can't say for sure if that is true or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn
I like aft cockpits. Gives me a good view of all the things happening when I'm steering the boat.
Funny - that's what I like about the center cockpit.

Quote:
I guess I'm just trying to justify why I don't like CCs vers ACs. I've sailed on both and prefer the layout of ACs.
It is enough that you like the aft cockpit. You don't need to justify it, though it is nice to get some insight into your thoughts on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskfreedom
I also worry about the CC being bad going to weather. Also the performance differences of the two.
I have not observed any unusual problems going to weather. I'm not a performance fanatic, so I wouldn't notice minor differences. I can make my center cockpit boat point better than I could with my Catalina 34, if that tells you anything.
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Old 10-03-2007, 23:13   #11
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I've owned both, prefer the aft for the sensation of driving rather than riding.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:00   #12
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Trim...so where do you put the saddle on your horse?? <G>
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Old 11-03-2007, 15:10   #13
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Camaraderie,

Nice boat, I've always admired the Tayana. What type of furling main system do you have there and how do you like it? Would you recommend the expense?

As far as the saddle on my horse, I think he would have a real issue with the rudder.

But personally, if given the choice when racing, I would always take the aft helm position. For cruising, the center is probably a better all round choice when considering the advantages of the aft cabin space. In large seas however, I would perfer the depth of the aft cockpit.
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Old 11-03-2007, 15:51   #14
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boarding seas

One problem with an aft cockpit is that of getting pooped by boarding seas, which can happen even not in a storm. A friend of mine was pooped when one of those combinations of waves coincided to create one large one whereas the others were relatively mild.

I was in a hurricane with a center cockpit and huge breaking seas on occasion would sweep down the deck from aft to bow leaving ONLY the center cockpit out of the water. After that experience, being dry, my next boat was also a center cockpit for going to sea.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:57   #15
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Thanks guys, I have decided on CC or pilothouse.
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