Center Cockpti boats like Amel Amramu or Beneteau Oceanis 44 CC

[Lucas1983]

Good day all. I am trying to find more models of center cockpit like the Amel Amramu boat with the steering wheel and instrumentation port side under the start of the dodger kind of like on the dash and there is a seat at the wheel and a cutter rig or 2 foresails. Amel Amramu is the best example of this but mostly comes in a 52-58 or bigger version which I don't need and at that size it is a ketch which I don't want but would settle for if I could find that cockpit layout.
Beneteau Oceanis 44 CC also has a set up like this but not as comfortable at the helm or a separate seat really. I like the Amel set up much more but there boats in the early 80's are still over 100k-130k USD at the least when they are the smaller models like the 45-48 foot which I was going for so the length is good but they are much older and still a ketch at 42 feet. so I am mainly looking for that protected helm that sits on the port or starboard side which is rare being a French boat, but the only thing close to the Amel boats is that Beneteau oceanis 44 CC but the Amel especially is very costly. for those of you who haven't seen them on youtube its the same boat Brian from the Delos sailboat owns but his is a super (whatever that means) Amramu which has fridges under the galley seating for storage and I don’t know what really else make it so special. Maybe more electric winches.
Anyway, I would appreciate anyone who has another similar model that I could look at hopefully under 50feet and a cutter rig but not a ketch, the only benefit I see to a ketch is getting up to your hull speed quicker or being able to sail in lighter winds giver more sail area, correct me if I am wrong or missing something.
thank you all.
Cas

[dayshine]

Hi, have you looked at Najad or Hallberg Rassy?

https://najad.se

https://www.hallberg-rassy.com

There are many used boats for sale at reasonable prices.

Good luck!

[HankOnthewater]

Hi Cas, there are quite a few Amels, all with a very similar layout, but a Sharki at ~41 ft, or Maramu and Santorin both at 46 ft might fit your length requirement.
For more information on Amel models check this thread: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ls-137037.html
Or in the following thread a similar question (about protected steering position) was asked:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...mu-167390.html

[Lucas1983]

First thanks to all, especially my first response which is always great with having info.

Now I would like to ask you and all the others since you have seen or been on the different models what are the differences between the mango and the other ones you listed?

Can you recall from you personal experience which you preferred best and why? please anyone else chip in. I cant believe they have not made more of this type of configuration making it hard to believe the french made it. Well a french man or team or one mans idea, but let face it the french make may things of pleasure and joy.

Lets not get started on the french this and french that and what kinda of intimate preference stated in a stupid American movie Tagalog nights with will fall err... off subject.... as they are so perfect,making it hared to believe the french made for long passages and can even single had 50 plus if you have to to a certain extent.

You would thing there has to be more of this style out there although I am not afraid of a ketch and what weather the mizzen is good in or not and can handle. I have to find out.

[HankOnthewater]

Hi Cas
Check this link for details and layout on the 46 ft Maramu, and via that you can access details of the other models as well.
MARAMU 46 (AMEL) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Lucas1983

First thanks to all, especially my first response which is always great with having info.

Now I would like to ask you and all the others since you have seen or been on the different models what are the differences between the mango and the other ones you listed?

Can you recall from you personal experience which you preferred best and why? please anyone else chip in. I cant believe they have not made more of this type of configuration making it hard to believe the french made it. Well a french man or team or one mans idea, but let face it the french make may things of pleasure and joy.

Lets not get started on the french this and french that and what kinda of intimate preference stated in a stupid American movie Tagalog nights with will fall err... off subject.... as they are so perfect,making it hared to believe the french made for long passages and can even single had 50 plus if you have to to a certain extent.

You would thing there has to be more of this style out there although I am not afraid of a ketch and what weather the mizzen is good in or not and can handle. I have to find out.

Amel's history of building boats is one of starting small, and over the years growing into larger and more complex ones.

Histoire

Typically, Amel manufactured just one of two models at a time, so the overall history is that smaller boats tended to be older.

The Sharki, the Santorin, and the Mango are the ones that are most likely to be of interest to you, based on their size.

They are all extremely well built.

One of the problems with the older boats is some of the systems and construction techniques are different that you find on other boats. Owners and mechanics who do not understand this can cause problems as they "mix and match" Amel specific systems with "standard" ways of doing things. It is very important to be sure that one of these older boats has been maintained as it should have been.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Don't know why you don't want a ketch. Flexibility is excellent ... I noted a small tear on the leach of my main sail 2 days ago. Yet, I sailed with genoa and mizzen from Tahuata Island to Nuku Hiva in under 14 hours yesterday. Try doing this with a sloop rig.

(Sail being repaired tomorrow)

A valid alternative could be a Santorin ketch; a number of them were delivered as sloop rigged.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Don't know why you don't want a ketch. Flexibility is excellent ... I noted a small tear on the leach of my main sail 2 days ago. Yet, I sailed with genoa and mizzen from Tahuata Island to Nuku Hiva in under 14 hours yesterday. Try doing this with a sloop rig.

(Sail being repaired tomorrow)

A valid alternative could be a Santorin ketch; a number of them were delivered as sloop rigged.

Second this ^^^

Got a super maramu myself (yes, they are dam 'super')... the heavier the weather, the better the ketch is. Douse the main and fly fore and aft reefed and you can plow through pretty much anything. Especially in an Amel of any sort...these babies are tanks As for older, yeah, they're getting up there, but they have two things going for them. 1) if the hull hasnt been structurally damaged by accident, not much can happen to them. osmosis for some reason is reputed to not be an issue with Amels. and 2) all systems, sails rigging electronics toilets fridges blah blah everything needs to be replaced every 10 years or 12-14 years or so. So you could buy a 2007 jenneau that needs 100k of work vs a well kept 1997 amel or even 1987 amel with updated gear and be good to go for a decade...

[Lucas1983]

i want to thank everyone for threre input and I see the point about having he ketch and if the weather was heavy you could loose the main and fly the mizzen and for sail, I have never sailed that configuration before, it does sound useful.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Lucas1983

i want to thank everyone for threre input and I see the point about having he ketch and if the weather was heavy you could loose the main and fly the mizzen and for sail, I have never sailed that configuration before, it does sound useful.

Another advantage of a ketch that most sloop sailors don't know about: You can carry a mizzen staysail. A light wind reaching sail that is super easy to set and retrieve compared to a spinnaker.

We love ours. In winds of <~17 knots, and the same kind of angles as a spinnaker, it pulls like a mule and is a piece of cake to trim.

[Lucas1983]

Thanks everyone. I am really starting to warm up to the idea of a ketch now, a good point was made when the one sailor said they found a tare in the main sail and sailed with ease with a forsail and the mizzen. I will have to look again but I was trying to find other boat brands that are well made like the Amel for blue water and have the same center cockpit configuration where you can sit port side under the hard dodger at the wheel. If anyone knows of other brands or models like the amel set up please let me know, I think someone answered this but I cant find that reply anymore.

[biohead]

Hi Lucas, I will add to the chorus. I sailed exclusively sloops during my "formative years" and at first was intimidated by the apparent complexity of the ketch rig.

I bought an older 1990 Super Maramu and after about 10,000 nm love the ketch. Rightly or wrongly, but it works, I set off sailing her just like a sloop man and genoa out get her up to speed, then set the AP....I watch what the wheel is doing and roll out the mizzen to balance the helm. My "Admiral" was on the night to day shift during an 8 day passage running the AP and had trouble brightening the display as the sun came up...she accidentally turned off the AP...but we sailed straight on course for the next three hours till i got up. Yeah I guess a sloop could do that too... but the flexibility of the rig is just so cool.

One other thing about Amels....the Amel rigger here in Martinique tells me he has never seen an Amel lose it's rig though he has services dozens of Beneteaus and various Catamarans that were demasted. He feels the Amels (at least the SuperMaramus) are over built for the sail plan. I really don't have a problem with that!


John
SV Annie
SM #37
Le Marin, Martinique

[AKA-None]

I’d love an Amel but my pocket book is more Yugo

[Lucas1983]

Originally Posted by biohead

Hi Lucas, I will add to the chorus. I sailed exclusively sloops during my "formative years" and at first was intimidated by the apparent complexity of the ketch rig.

I bought an older 1990 Super Maramu and after about 10,000 nm love the ketch. Rightly or wrongly, but it works, I set off sailing her just like a sloop man and genoa out get her up to speed, then set the AP....I watch what the wheel is doing and roll out the mizzen to balance the helm. My "Admiral" was on the night to day shift during an 8 day passage running the AP and had trouble brightening the display as the sun came up...she accidentally turned off the AP...but we sailed straight on course for the next three hours till i got up. Yeah I guess a sloop could do that too... but the flexibility of the rig is just so cool.

One other thing about Amels....the Amel rigger here in Martinique tells me he has never seen an Amel lose it's rig though he has services dozens of Beneteaus and various Catamarans that were demasted. He feels the Amels (at least the SuperMaramus) are over built for the sail plan. I really don't have a problem with that!


John
SV Annie
SM #37
Le Marin, Martinique

That some great info thanks!. Just so I am clear are you setting up the genoato sort of self steer the boat instead of using the AP? I have seen guys on you tube do that with a bit elastic sergical cord tied to the shett and the tiller and it would keep the boat into the wind and moving along. I am not sure how you would do that with a steering wheel, and from what I hear AP's dont last that long if you just set them and forget them and nap most of the night and they are not cheap as you know.



Boy I sure wish I was out sailing, I should have been, my job fell through so I should have just taken the summer off and tried to crew on a boat.
I used to be a sloop only or sloop cutter with two forsails then someone said that if you have problems with your mainsail for example you can set the mizzen and genoa and plow as they put it, throuhg the waves cruising nicely. I seen her point and agree on a ketch now even if there is a extra sail and rigging etc.
Now I am kinda set on a ketch CC.

[jackrabbit59]

I looked at several similar boats. Bought a Hunter. 50CC. Love it. Sails like a dream and not sectioned off inside into tiny cubby holes. Currently on 2 nd leg of circumnavigation. Check one out before buying something else. Engineering and design on this boat is excellent. Amel super maramu was my original intent until I sailed on the Hunter. The EU safety ratings exceed the Amel and the Swan. Mine is Kevlar from the keel forward. The B &R rig sails into the wind beyond belief. Only negative is downwind. Got an asymmetrical with top down furler for that. I love my electric winches and spa tub under my queen bed. At 6' 4" I can stand up everywhere in the boat, even my shower. Just my experience and my opinion.