Center Cockpit Sailboat Safety

[leftbrainstuff]

Nature doesn't really care if your boat is center or aft cockpit.

Center cockpit usually gives you much better interior and a fully enclosed center cockpit is on the wish list for many cruisers.

Getting on and off and entertaining large groups is often better with an aft cockpit.

I've never heard a cruiser or youtube cruiser complain about the safety and comfort of a center cockpit. But I have heard many complaints from aft cockpit owners about these deficiencies.

We have a fully enclosed center cockpit Liberty 458. At night in rough water I constantly thank neptune we don't own an aft coxkpit boat.

As for seasickness, visibility, etc I don't see much difference. We humans tend to adapt to second order issues quite quickly.

Don't overthink it. I sense that a center cockpit is what you really want...

[twig]

[Paul L]

While not exclusive to CC boats, one safety issue that is negative on a lot of CC is the death defyingly steep and long companionway stairs. In a seaway these have caused their fair share of body damage from falls.

[dfelsent]

Originally Posted by Paul L

While not exclusive to CC boats, one safety issue that is negative on a lot of CC is the death defyingly steep and long companionway stairs. In a seaway these have caused their fair share of body damage from falls.

As the happy owner of a center cockpit ketch with 7’ headroom I wholeheartedly agree with the dangers of the companionway.
One of part of my orientation aboard is explaining that the companionway is a ladder, not stairs. You always descend backwards, facing the ladder with hand holds. People who ignore this get reminded.

[dkenny64]

all interesting comments and thoughts.


I own an Irwin 43CC..

reasonable large cockpit.. 8ft on each side and 7ft across the back..
not hugh but enough. can easily sleep 3


6'4" standing headroom...salon, master, nav, galley and vberth...

can easy handle a crew of 4..in separate cabins fore and aft with separate heads. and doors..
salon can easily handle 4 people.. 8 in a pinch..
queen size master berth aft..


downside..free board.. you have to climb a ladder to get into the boat.. or is it really a downside..


its 3 steps from the cockpit into the salon...


so what's wrong with a CC..


just thought I'd toss my 2 cents in since no one has mentioned a Irwin..
-dkenny64

[Cheechako]

I doubt the CC is necessarily safer. There are good and bad points.
- I agree only on 40 feet and up and preferably 45.
-I think the CC is drier not wetter. My 47 aft cockpit could be very wet in a big blow. there were times when I was standing in a foot of water. I cant see CC being worse than that!
-I would probably want hydraulic steering if I had a CC. Too many turns , sheaves etc for cable drive. I can think of 3 friends who spent time working on their cable system on CC boats and it was a nightmare. Not much alternative for an emergency rudder either. Steel cable stretches more than you would think and the 7x19 used for turning around small sheaves stretches even more. The rudder pressure is huge in a big blow if the boat gets slammed sideways in a seaway, the cable stretches and first thing you know it's off a sheave buried in the ceiling or underfloor!
-I would dislike the stuffy aft cabin myself any way. A Galley and dinette back there would be cool!
-The tall companionway ladder of a CC is a problem but water entering through an aft cockpit companionway is an offsetting issue.

[dkenny64]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I doubt the CC is necessarily safer. There are good and bad points.
- I agree only on 40 feet and up and preferably 45.
-I think the CC is drier not wetter. My 47 aft cockpit could be very wet in a big blow. there were times when I was standing in a foot of water. I cant see CC being worse than that!
-I would probably want hydraulic steering if I had a CC. Too many turns , sheaves etc for cable drive. I can think of 3 friends who spent time working on their cable system on CC boats. Steel cable stretches more than you would think and the 7x19 used for turning around small sheaves stretches even more. It may be fine and then in a big blow and the boat gets slammed sideways on a sea, the rudder pressure is huge, cable stretches and first thing you know it's off a sheave!
-I would dislike the stuffy aft cabin myself any way. A Galley and dinette back there would be cool!

we had no steering issue. talk with many friends that said how complex they are.. until I showed them we have 2 sheaves(port/starboard) in the master cabin to direct the steering to the quadrant...nothing else..it chain or cable(enclosed).. the distance from cable covering(?) to sheave is about 2 inches( stretch?) enough to guide it off? not likely..


the only I can think we might have had that much water in our cockpit was during hurricane Fran. here in NC.. I was on the the boat but we had water that went in under the companion way boards..so it was about 10in deep..if someone had been on board simple clearing the drains would have fixed the problem..


if push comes to shove..we also have a back up tiller steering that mount to the top of the rudder post.. I just in that case some one isn't trying to sleep in the master berth..
its in the middle


-dkenny64

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

.....
-The tall companionway ladder of a CC is a problem but water entering through an aft cockpit companionway is an offsetting issue.

Not much of a comparison. Once every 8 year event versus 8 times a day

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Not much of a comparison. Once every 8 year event versus 8 times a day

That's not a bug, that's a feature. Now you don't need to go to the gym!!!

[Jim Cate]

Every time these cc v ac threads pop up I eventually post the following thoughts, and the cc fans poo-poo them...

I don't see the advantage of devoting some 35% of the available volume in a hull to a room where you spend ~8 hours a day... asleep. Invariably, the big aft cabin and engine room under the cockpit eat up more than their fair share of space, usually at the expense of the saloon... the place wher you spend the greater part of your below decks time... and the galley, where sustenance is prepared. I know that I like some room to wave my arms when cooking, some counter space to spread stuff out on, and yes, to still have eye contact with the folks settin' around waiting for food.

And then, there is the much lauded island queen bunk... great when at anchor or in a marina, lousy at sea.

And then there is the excessive freeboard needed to afford the standup passage aft... ugly and lots of windage. Oh... don't forget the enclosure that a great many cc boats erect over that cockpit... more windage, difficult access in many cases, and interfering with sail control and viewing.

In very large yachts, say 55+ feet perhaps, many of my gripes disappear, and the cc (usually not really in the center, but not clear aft) configuration begins to look better to me, but especially in <40 foot hulls, the cc is a joke IMO.

A final comment: I wonder if the big aft cabin's appeal is that it is more like a household bedroom? Some folks seem to want their yacht to be just like their home digs in as many ways as possible, others of us actually like things to be "boaty" instead. Different strokes...

Jim

[LF4]

I find real appreciation with this.

Before I go any further, I want to make a statement to anyone who has read any of my other posts. When it comes to the information I am receiving on this forum, I am taking what I need and leaving the rest.

I signed up for 18 hours of sailing instruction this June.

The wife and I are going to the boat show in Annapolis this April, for three days, and cannot wait! (We even went to the powerboat show with the kids to get an idea of what boat sizes look like outside of the water. The kids had a blast and didnt want to leave after the 5 hours we spent climbing aboard!)

We are going to be chartering a boat this August.

Okay, yes I am a newbie, that's fine. But I took a lot of everyones advice and a big THANK YOU to the community for steering us in the right direction.


Now, I guess I should outline why I am asking this question...

My wife and I are planning on living aboard for at least 4 years with our two children. Yes, a family of four. We would like to have some separation from the kids to keep our marital relations semi private and the kids at bay. We also want to make sure that we have enough space to provision for Atlantic and Pacific crossings.

As you can imagine, as a husband/wife and father/mother, safety/efficiency are paramount to any decision we make. It appears there are pros and cons to any decision one can make, and that are magnified when you are on a boat.

Speaking to what Jim Cate has to say I will add this...I do not have many memories of my time in bed, other than the warm body that is next to me. That being the case, we certainly want a great entertaining space to build the memories that we will talk about when we are in our 70's and our kids/grandkids are around the dinner table. Hmm...dinner table...that sounds like something that would be located in a saloon. Yeah, maybe thats the right decisions here, aft cockpit? But its not if it compromises the ability of my children to produce those grandchildren I mentioned above. Hence the question that lay above....

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Every time these cc v ac threads pop up I eventually post the following thoughts, and the cc fans poo-poo them...

I don't see the advantage of devoting some 35% of the available volume in a hull to a room where you spend ~8 hours a day... asleep. Invariably, the big aft cabin and engine room under the cockpit eat up more than their fair share of space, usually at the expense of the saloon... the place wher you spend the greater part of your below decks time... and the galley, where sustenance is prepared. I know that I like some room to wave my arms when cooking, some counter space to spread stuff out on, and yes, to still have eye contact with the folks settin' around waiting for food.

And then, there is the much lauded island queen bunk... great when at anchor or in a marina, lousy at sea.

And then there is the excessive freeboard needed to afford the standup passage aft... ugly and lots of windage. Oh... don't forget the enclosure that a great many cc boats erect over that cockpit... more windage, difficult access in many cases, and interfering with sail control and viewing.

In very large yachts, say 55+ feet perhaps, many of my gripes disappear, and the cc (usually not really in the center, but not clear aft) configuration begins to look better to me, but especially in <40 foot hulls, the cc is a joke IMO.

A final comment: I wonder if the big aft cabin's appeal is that it is more like a household bedroom? Some folks seem to want their yacht to be just like their home digs in as many ways as possible, others of us actually like things to be "boaty" instead. Different strokes...

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Every time these cc v ac threads pop up I eventually post the following thoughts, and the cc fans poo-poo them...

I don't see the advantage of devoting some 35% of the available volume in a hull to a room where you spend ~8 hours a day... asleep. Invariably, the big aft cabin and engine room under the cockpit eat up more than their fair share of space, usually at the expense of the saloon... the place wher you spend the greater part of your below decks time... and the galley, where sustenance is prepared. I know that I like some room to wave my arms when cooking, some counter space to spread stuff out on, and yes, to still have eye contact with the folks settin' around waiting for food.

And then, there is the much lauded island queen bunk... great when at anchor or in a marina, lousy at sea.

And then there is the excessive freeboard needed to afford the standup passage aft... ugly and lots of windage. Oh... don't forget the enclosure that a great many cc boats erect over that cockpit... more windage, difficult access in many cases, and interfering with sail control and viewing.

In very large yachts, say 55+ feet perhaps, many of my gripes disappear, and the cc (usually not really in the center, but not clear aft) configuration begins to look better to me, but especially in <40 foot hulls, the cc is a joke IMO.

A final comment: I wonder if the big aft cabin's appeal is that it is more like a household bedroom? Some folks seem to want their yacht to be just like their home digs in as many ways as possible, others of us actually like things to be "boaty" instead. Different strokes...

Jim

Right on cue...here we go...

My 39 - ie sub 40 foot - CC boat on the left... a 39 foot aft cockpit Jenny next to her.... no excessive freeboard or ugly dodger on my boat....

Struth Jim, next thing you'll be saying my wife is fat and ugly......

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Right on cue...here we go...

My 39 - ie sub 40 foot - CC boat on the left... a 39 foot aft cockpit Jenny next to her.... no excessive freeboard or ugly dodger on my boat....

Struth Jim, next thing you'll be saying my wife is fat and ugly......

Naw, Ping, I am fat and ugly, so tend not to dwell on those subjects.

And I gotta admit that not all cc boats tend towards the extremes that so annoy me. You have resisted the urge to build a condo over your cockpit, and that is both admirable and unusual. And as I said in the beginning, cc adherents don't agree with me. Now, I know they are wrong, but being the accommodating fellow that I am, I only occasionally point out that fact!

So, continue to enjoy your Ocean Lord (ostentatious name, that!) and I promise to respect your opinions (as always)... even if they are wrong!

Vive le difference!

Jim

[ArmyDaveNY]

My boats are aft cabin but having said that, I can like both, and a LOT depends upon the boat you're looking at and how you are using it. Jim is absolutely correct that the shorter the boat the harder it is to do a good center cockpit but that is not to say it can't be done.

How much privacy do you want/need?
If you or the other couple are in the aft cabin, will anyone feel uncomfortable if someone is in the salon?
How much room do you need in the salon?
How much time will you spend on the hook or in a slip?
How often and how far will you be sailing?
Will you have any guests coming on board and how often?
How much room do you want in the cockpit?

Have you checked out YouTube? There are a number of center cockpit tours and they may help you narrow your search. Below are two of many videos.

Spend as much time as possible on various boats. Your trip to the Annapolis Boat show should help you narrow your search. If possible, try to get on some center cockpits for a weekend with others. Good luck in your search.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub22bhf3TYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czIxEngi3Lg

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Naw, Ping, I am fat and ugly, so tend not to dwell on those subjects.

And I gotta admit that not all cc boats tend towards the extremes that so annoy me. You have resisted the urge to build a condo over your cockpit, and that is both admirable and unusual. And as I said in the beginning, cc adherents don't agree with me. Now, I know they are wrong, but being the accommodating fellow that I am, I only occasionally point out that fact!

So, continue to enjoy your Ocean Lord (ostentatious name, that!) and I promise to respect your opinions (as always)... even if they are wrong!

Vive le difference!

Jim

You don't sound fat and ugly on the radio ..... you sound tall dark and handsome... or so the cook says...

No ...my boat does not bear an ostentatious - golly thats a fancy word - name ... is a mere Sealord... designed by Ed Dubois ( as was the Oceanlord...) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituari...er---obituary/

Brilliant man.

Good and bad in both styles...