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Old 01-01-2008, 08:22   #16
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Modern boats are built with minimal hull to deck flanges, use adhesives instead of glass, and do not mechanically fasten the hull to the deck.

It's cheap and quick to build this way but....

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Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
The other common failure is hull to deck joints. I shouldn't really say "Common" because it is not common, however it does happen.. This can happen on a light displacement boat that is allowed to lie-ahull in heavy seas. The boat can actually free-fall from some distance and cause a massive hull to deck breach. This would most surey be fatal and is probably why we don't hear about it.
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:00   #17
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Agreed Joli, and even where there is mechanical fastening, it is often just rivets or screws rather than thru-bolts. The problem is compounded in boats where the hull-deck joint continues on from the topsides of the hull to the transom (as is generally the case with reverse transoms).

To that you can add carbon fibre rudder posts (used by Hunter with disastrous results) and interior bulkheads that are merely inserted in frp interior pan moldings. In adddition, stanchions with heights less than 30" that are spaced more than 5 feet apart and have inadequate base attachments. The list goes on and on and on but really, comes under the heading 'solid, but not necessarily heavy construction'.

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Old 01-01-2008, 09:24   #18
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couple of things I would add to Brad's post. First is interior handholds. Many of today's boats sport dockside condo interiors, wide open spacious, and sure to throw you from one side to the other like a pinball in heavy seas with nasty results. A blue water boat's interior should have below shoulder height (whereever possible) places to grab hold of (not just formal handholds) such that you can reach the next one before you let go of the the one you have a grip on, wherever you are in the boat.

Secondly, the 'blue water cruising boat" should NOT be designed to any racing rule, as the rules that COUNT are those required by the sea...which are fairly understood and can be found for the most part reflected in the general maritime construction codes.

Speed is subordinated to comfort and ease of motion, hull weight determined by requirements of strength and solidity.

One thing about a true bluewater boat, generally speaking, with only a little experience, you will know one when you see one

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Old 02-01-2008, 12:28   #19
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First time in 60 knots of wind will tell ya too.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:42   #20
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Having sailed through a typhoon in a 28ft boat, I would concur with those who say stay with the boat. Admittedly uninjured, we were physically and psychologically exhausted after three days in 50-60knots and 30-40fters and a dismasting. But aside from the mast, the boat held together.
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Old 02-01-2008, 16:33   #21
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Brad,

IMO would make a great "sticky post".

But of course not everyone who wants to "Go cruising" wants to "go Way Offshore" and therefore does not need a boat capable of pretty much anything being thrown at it.
I couldn't disagree more.. Staying relatively close to shore in a boat that has no other choice then to head in if weather develops is a recipe for disaster. Storms coming so you head for the nearest port. Oh, yea, it's night. You sail for hours only to be overtaken just as you reach the breakwater.. Now you're looking at a night approach in dirty weather into an unknown port. I'd think you'd be much better off, simply heading offshore, knowing your boat will handle the rough stuff. Now if you know your boat doesn't stand a chance out there, what other choice do you have?? None. I like to have options..
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Old 02-01-2008, 17:13   #22
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You wouldn't want to head in on the PNW coast in a blow. Better to go further out for sea room and ride it out.
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Old 02-01-2008, 18:52   #23
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I couldn't disagree more.. Staying relatively close to shore in a boat that has no other choice then to head in if weather develops is a recipe for disaster. Storms coming so you head for the nearest port. Oh, yea, it's night. You sail for hours only to be overtaken just as you reach the breakwater.. Now you're looking at a night approach in dirty weather into an unknown port. I'd think you'd be much better off, simply heading offshore, knowing your boat will handle the rough stuff. Now if you know your boat doesn't stand a chance out there, what other choice do you have?? None. I like to have options..

I think you make a good point, the big difference between big storms out on the big blue, is that by and large you are out there ALONE, and ON YOUR OWN..therefore one might conceivably want a boat prepared to handle anything that might come up...

contrast that with the shoreline, where...you can have equally bad storms, probably more problems with currents, certainly more likelihood of hitting something or getting hit (you are near shore after all so traffic, debris, etc., and what's different about the danger? Appears you might want as good or even a better boat in closer ....well, what trumps that concern in the market appears to be that you are less likely to be alone when the bad stuff happens. Help can get there sooner, other friendly boats can help you out, and if worse comes to worse, at least in the warmer climes, you might actually be able to swim to shore.

In any event, I believe a thinking man might consider getting the best boat he can get whether he's going up and down the coast, or crossing oceans. When you're doing something that can get you killed, I've found it good practice to do it with the best equipment you can acquire .

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Old 03-01-2008, 15:02   #24
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

IMO would make a great "sticky post".

But of course not everyone who wants to "Go cruising" wants to "go Way Offshore" and therefore does not need a boat capable of pretty much anything being thrown at it.
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I couldn't disagree more.. Staying relatively close to shore in a boat that has no other choice then to head in if weather develops is a recipe for disaster. Storms coming so you head for the nearest port. Oh, yea, it's night. You sail for hours only to be overtaken just as you reach the breakwater.. Now you're looking at a night approach in dirty weather into an unknown port. I'd think you'd be much better off, simply heading offshore, knowing your boat will handle the rough stuff. Now if you know your boat doesn't stand a chance out there, what other choice do you have?? None. I like to have options..
I suspect that we are probably pretty much on the same page, but anyway, just to clarify, including for others, my brief comments........

I was thinking of folk who may "only" (I dream!) want to cruise places around the islands and coasts of the Caribbean / Med etc etc with the odd longer passages thrown in - rather than those looking to round the Capes and all points in between. Whilst of course many things on a Salty Salty "blue water" boat would be really appreciated anywhere when the weather turns to pap - in real life choices are made - doesn't mean that a vessel is unseaworthy (even in a blow) if she does not tick all the boxes on Brad's list.

But as Brad pointed out to me, the OP was talking about 'bluewater' boats and surviving the most extreme conditions, including hurricanes - so I was guilty of a touch of thread drift
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:47   #25
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There are two significant factors that increase the likelihood that offshore passagemakers will experience more unexpected and extreme weather conditions (vs coastal cruisers):
1. Exposure time.
The longer you are at sea, the more likely that you will see diverse weather conditions, including extremes.
2. Forecast accuracy.
The longer range weather forecast is much less accurate than the short-range (< 3 days) forecast. Sailing within a day or two of shore allows you to plan trips, with a higher likelihood that the weather will conform to your expectations.
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