Catalina or Hunter?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

Still a vee berth so you still have to do acrobatics to get in and out. The chance of getting up to use the head in the middle of the night without waking the wife is minimal.

I would also be curious about the swim platform. I haven't seen one on a sailboat that meets the parameters you said and is still safe in a following sea.


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Well, I don't plan to go cruising with more than my g/f and we use the huge double in the main salon. And if the guests occupy v-berth the boat's head is between the v and main with doors on both sides so either party going in is not disturbing the others.

As far as the swim platfor, I agree, what I have now is an interim solution which works fine for coastal crusing but would not work for offshore. I have figured out 2 choices when I switch to more distant cruising grounds. Either make it folding with ss tubes inside larger tubes to swing it in and out and a sturdy latch to keep it from poping out during following seas. Or to fiberglass an extention to my stern sawed off from a junked recent boat in lieu of making one from scratch. I've seen one aftermarket addition like that during my last visit to Key West.

[JK n Smitty]

I agree that this tread is digressing into the ridiculous.

We are also getting into some circular arguments here. So I'm out.


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[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Two or three years ago we actually looked at these, Tartan and Sabre at the local boat show. I don't recall all the details but I think they were OK but not great for the price.

I think there are several different debates being confused:

New boat vs used boat -- Some have claimed that there are no newly built quality boats, others have claimed that older boats don't have the requisite creature comforts. Others further claim that creature comforts are unnecessary. I believe the first two statements to be untrue. The latter is an obvious matter of personal preference.

One brand vs. another brand -- Some bring up bad experiences they have had with brand X; others claim brand X has served them well. I believe that shared brand experiences can help inform potential consumers. There are many options out there. Often we can benefit from the experience of others.

Whether quality of construction matters -- the sunset looks the same whether viewed from the cockpit of brand X or brand Y. For some of us, the solidity of the structure we trust our life, and the lives of our family to, is paramount. For others, good enough is good enough and other factors become more important. (As an aside, I recently read the blog of a cruising couple in a Pearson Triton 28 -- a boat known for being well built. Their hull/deck joint separated and failed catastrophically in a rogue wave. I don't know whether it was a design, manufacturing or maintenance failure, but to me it shows not only that quality matters, but that real quality does not always match reputation).


Whether design matters -- boats are trade-offs, and thus are optimized for a purpose or goal. It doesn't really matter how "perfect" one boat is -- it matters how well suited it is for the purpose at hand. The OP asked about live-aboard, not long-distance cruising. How well a boat motors to weather or how well attached the keel is may not matter if one never leaves the dock. If I were looking for a boat simply to live on, how comfortable a boat is at anchor/dock, and how much storage space there is, would outweigh safety and comfort at sea.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

No sense AFAIK to pay 100s of K's when you can get same or nearly the same thing for 10s of K's.

Why didn't you say that your primary objection is new boats are a waste of money? You're argument makes a lot more sense now. Yes you can get all the amenities with older boats for far less money. You can get the same amenities on newer boats for way more money. Thats fine if that's your opinion but it doesn't mean that new boats are bad. Some people want a new boat and some don't. Same thing with cars. New cars depreciate very quickly and are a "waste" of money but some people like to buy new cars for the peace of mind and various other reasons. Doesn't make them wrong just able and willing. If when we upgrade to a bigger boat and I can afford a new or very close to new boat I'm going to. If I can't then I won't.

[ianjoub]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

So you agree with me? What's the point of having more potential problems which will eat into your sailing time and budget?

Originally Posted by ianjoub

The point is, some of us like:

hot showers
flushing toilets
refrigeration
stoves, ovens, and coffeemakers
comfortable and spacious accommodations
electric windlasses and winches
autopilots
furling sails

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I don't get your point. I have EVERYTHING you have listed on my 34 year old 36' boat and more. Just this August installed hard top, roler furling main, 4 110W solar panels, etc, etc. And I still get more comfortable and just as fast of a ride as anyone will get in a 5 to 10 year old modern production boat of the same size. For 1/10 of the price. And your point is?

Older boats with less systems were mentioned. I said I like more systems and listed some examples.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Why do I need a freshwater head? More things to break and fix. As far as electric winches, I've installed an electric windlass but don't see any need for electric winches for now although as I'll be getting older I'll probably will consider those as well. But what's the point of paying 100s of K for a newer boat just for those when I can install them on my boat for a few K's?

I'm fascinated by people's view of boats. It's just a piece of a plastic hull with add-ons. No sense AFAIK to pay 100s of K's when you can get same or nearly the same thing for 10s of K's and you still end up with same performance, comfort, etc. Unless of course you're a competitive racer and each 1/100 of a second counts.

Because freshwater heads are the only ones that flush.

Got any pics of 4 people on your swim platform ?

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by savoir

Because freshwater heads are the only ones that flush.

What do you mean?

I am presently running our heads as freshwater; but, if I flip the valves and switch to raw water they still flush. I find fresh water in the heads smell fresher, but otherwise they're identical in flushing.

[Jethro411]

Very happy with my 1988 Catalina 36.


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[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by savoir

Because freshwater heads are the only ones that flush.

Got any pics of 4 people on your swim platform ?

Not a problem. I'll take them when the next opportunity avails. I've had 4 people on it. 2 about 160lbs each and 2 about 200-220lbs each.

Don't get your point about the freshwater heads. What, salt water ones don't flush?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Why didn't you say that your primary objection is new boats are a waste of money? You're argument makes a lot more sense now. Yes you can get all the amenities with older boats for far less money. You can get the same amenities on newer boats for way more money. Thats fine if that's your opinion but it doesn't mean that new boats are bad. Some people want a new boat and some don't. Same thing with cars. New cars depreciate very quickly and are a "waste" of money but some people like to buy new cars for the peace of mind and various other reasons. Doesn't make them wrong just able and willing. If when we upgrade to a bigger boat and I can afford a new or very close to new boat I'm going to. If I can't then I won't.

Why are we digressing into new vs old? I thought the question was offshore capable vs non-capable? Not to mention that the OP was not even takling about new boats? I was just stating my opinion that an older quality boat is way better than a newish lesser quality one. That's seems the obvious point not worth hammering over and over again. That said it is obvious than a 20 or 30 year old Sabre or Swan with proper refits and maintanence is still better for offshore sailing than a brand new Hunter of same size. I welcome anyone to prove me wrong.

[robert sailor]

Get your point but Sabre and Swan are not even close to equals.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Get your point but Sabre and Swan are not even close to equals.

I know. I personally think Sabre is way overrated and Swan is way underrated. )) I was at an auction of 1981 Swan 47 last November. Wow, wow, wow. Wish I had the extra $180K lying around to get it. There were 50 people registered to bid (unusually high number for any boat auction) but only 5 were still bidding over 100K.

[wet feet]

I race and sell Catalina because everyone knows someone that owned one. But for my own use the Hunter if far better built boat. I would stay with the two digit boat verse the three digit newer boats. Hunter has 1985-90 boats that you can buy for a song, these boats look nice and sail great.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It means that people with the boats and who know them like them, as opposed to forum people who have nothing better to do or contribute other than looking for an opportunity to make a trashing post.

Of course owners are liars and internet forum posters are experts.

I tried to make the same point in another thread, except in a bit nicer way, and I got my hand slapped...and the thread got nuked. Oh well. Good on you.

In any case, I've owned both. We owned a Catalina 27 for several years and now have an '89 Hunter 40 Legend. Our Hunter won't point quite as well as the smaller 27 did (just a few degrees off), but she is an awesome boat. Incredible balance and with a PHRF of 102...she's stupid fast. And, obviously, she's a palace compared to the C27.

I've also sailed the Beneteau First, Beneteau Number Series, and an O'Day.

AND, to be clear, I've also done over 1,500 miles in offshore races/returns on "world-class cruising boats"....a Pacific Seacraft 37 and a Pearson 365.

I MUCH prefer my Hunter. Hands down. That's why I bought it.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by JTSmith

Ralph. Already got it. Thanks! Though, I'm going with Smackdaddy's advice and leave the multimeter and moisture sensor to the surveyor. Been on enough boats in my life to spot the big problems with a flashlight and camera, I think.


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Booyah!