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Old 19-12-2013, 10:13   #31
h20
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
H20, I suggest a course in offshore navigation, too, or you might land in Cuba rather than the Tortugas....
Even with two GPS? Yes good idea. would like to learn stars sexton ect..
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:19   #32
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
I really dislike the glued in interiors, access to things like hoses and wiring can be a real pita, its like they were only designed to last until the first refit or until the warranty expires.

Better read up a little more on tacking or take a sail with someone. Where are you? Im guessing w florida as your looking at tortugas. Ive been there many times from tampa.
yes Port Richey, sailed small boats. UM, which ones are glued in?
THANKS
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:24   #33
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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WHICH Hunter and WHICH Catalina?

And who are THEY?

Get the boat you like, not the one unknown forum posters like!
Yes, thank you. learning re sale value. Design. Parts. Survey. Anything that would help not to get burned or second guess, but you right about "I" must like the boat. Leaning toward a Catalina. Seen some salons rebuilt in Hunters looked pretty good.....
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:28   #34
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

worth the money?
1989 Erickson 32-200 sailboat for sale in Florida
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:31   #35
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

Pick the one in the best shape, and the one you like the most.

There are some differences, but they'll both work.
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Old 19-12-2013, 11:14   #36
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

I saw a video at a boatshow of Hunter construction. A preassembled interior is set into the hull bonded with glue spots here and there. It saves a bunch of labor over tabbing in wood bulkheads and furniture as in the typical construction of old. Its also the reason why they sound like theyre gonna come apart in a seaway. Ive been on hunters that would creak and moan at anchor in a light chop. That being said I started my sailing on chartered hunters taken from Miami to the Bahamas and have weathered some pretty huge stuff in the gulfstream in them without issue. After owning my first sailboat and snapping two rudders off i chose a full keel with a protected rudder for my second boat. Its no fun to be out there without steerage, Fortunately for me it was an outboard driven boat and i could steer with it in a pinch, and had to. It was no fun.
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Old 19-12-2013, 11:19   #37
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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You've looked at 1000's of boat but do not understand how the jib tacks through?

You might want to back off a bit. Get a small sloop or catamaran and sail some. It will help you be better qualified to choose a boat.........

Good Luck and be careful.

Tom

1974 Bristol 27 #335

BRISTOL 27 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Sounds funny yes. Did sail a 42 foot Hinkly with dad when younger.
In the BVI for 20 days. Am going to look for some lessons.
But been around water all my life and built some 17ft skiffs.
But we won't head off to Dry Tortugas the first day. If we can get one on a dock and spend 20 30 days learning her. Learn pratice, learn partice.
From water ski, snow ski, commercial Tuna Fish, hunt, world travel, Scuba, spear fish, owned 5 business's. This sailing should keep my mind ocupied.
Thanks for the tip, "be careful!"
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Old 19-12-2013, 11:23   #38
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
I saw a video at a boatshow of Hunter construction. A preassembled interior is set into the hull bonded with glue spots here and there. It saves a bunch of labor over tabbing in wood bulkheads and furniture as in the typical construction of old. Its also the reason why they sound like theyre gonna come apart in a seaway. Ive been on hunters that would creak and moan at anchor in a light chop. That being said I started my sailing on chartered hunters taken from Miami to the Bahamas and have weathered some pretty huge stuff in the gulfstream in them without issue. After owning my first sailboat and snapping two rudders off i chose a full keel with a protected rudder for my second boat. Its no fun to be out there without steerage, Fortunately for me it was an outboard driven boat and i could steer with it in a pinch, and had to. It was no fun.
Loks like I should keep a Morgan in mind too!
"""i chose a full keel with a protected rudder"""
Sounds like a safe tip!
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:05   #39
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Now your in 2 completely different styles lol. Are you planning on reselling it soon if not I wouldn't look at that so much. Speaking of noise I was in New IP and that creeked a ton.
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:28   #40
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

Hunter is not the only builder that has liners that are glued to the hull..basically every large production builder uses this method of construction.
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:49   #41
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Loks like I should keep a Morgan in mind too!
"""i chose a full keel with a protected rudder"""
Sounds like a safe tip!
Just because something is "conventional wisdom", doesn't always mean its true. Do you own research on the full keel "protected" rudder issue. More modern boats, even "blue water" boats, are going with fin keels (or a wing version of a fin) with spade rudders. Find me a skeg hung rudder or full keel on a new Tartan.

By the way, take a look at the global racing boats like those used in the Volvo or other races. They don't have skeg hung rudders or full keels and are going through conditions that are typically far worse then any cruiser would see.

There are many people who consider the spade rudder better than the skeg or keel hung rudder. First, the spade rudder is far more efficient and therefore requires less torque and simpler steering mechanism. Second, there is far less stress placed on the spade rudder by water from lift forces because it is away from the keel and clear of the turbulent water generated. Third, the protection offered by the skeg or back portion of the keel is overrated because most debris would be cleared away from the rudder by the leading edge of the keel and not come in contact with the rudder area. Finally, a well designed spade rudder won't cause structural damage when it is struck by an object or hits a rock and the bottom portion is considered "sacrificial". A skeg hung or keel hung rudder that takes a major hit could suffer major damage that would have required a haul-out or could structurally damaged the hull or create a leak that sinks the boat. With a spade, the rudder may shear off but the boat would remain afloat and you could then work out a repair or emergency rudder or steer by dragging lines, etc.

As with many things on boats, gear/design will get a bad reputation based on incomplete stories. Most of the time when there is a failure of a spade rudder it is due to lack of maintenance. If you are not inspecting and maintaining any boat equipment properly, the equipment isn't to blame, the sailor is.
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:54   #42
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

If you're considering the 80's era C34 mkI and the mid- to late-80's era H34, I think you'll find that they are very different boats.

Sailing ability: C34 is forgiving and middle-of-the-road. Available in either fin or wing keel. H34 is faster, more tender, and has a large rig (early B&R) for her length. Only available in fin keel.

Cockpit: C34 cockpit is large and roomy (seats 6-8 at the dock, 4-6 sailing) w/ good storage. H34 cockpit is tiny, a feels cramped with more than 3 (either docked or sailing).

Cabin: Both boats have a private aft cabin. C34 head is aft, dinette is a full-U shape. H34 head is forward, dinette is smaller.

Price: In general, C34's of the same year seem about ~$10k more.

Other: Check for chainplate leaks on the C34. Check for mast step rot in the bilge on the H34. C34 keel is lead. H34 keel is iron (IIRC).

For transparency sake, I own a C34 and am probably biased. If the C34 interests you, you might also consider the C30 and C36. If you want to stick with Cats but prefer something newer in the same price range, you might find a C28 or C32 from the 90's for similar money.
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:57   #43
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

Just because an interior was built outside the boat and then lowered into the hull it doesn't mean that the bulkheads etc aren't in fact fiberglass tabbed to the hull!

Besides this whole panned construction may have been something to use to raise fear with ....................... 25 years ago when it started. But now is is just the same old noise BS argument.
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Old 19-12-2013, 12:58   #44
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
Just because something is "conventional wisdom", doesn't always mean its true. Do you own research on the full keel "protected" rudder issue. More modern boats, even "blue water" boats, are going with fin keels (or a wing version of a fin) with spade rudders. Find me a skeg hung rudder or full keel on a new Tartan.

By the way, take a look at the global racing boats like those used in the Volvo or other races. They don't have skeg hung rudders or full keels and are going through conditions that are typically far worse then any cruiser would see.

There are many people who consider the spade rudder better than the skeg or keel hung rudder. First, the spade rudder is far more efficient and therefore requires less torque and simpler steering mechanism. Second, there is far less stress placed on the spade rudder by water from lift forces because it is away from the keel and clear of the turbulent water generated. Third, the protection offered by the skeg or back portion of the keel is overrated because most debris would be cleared away from the rudder by the leading edge of the keel and not come in contact with the rudder area. Finally, a well designed spade rudder won't cause structural damage when it is struck by an object or hits a rock and the bottom portion is considered "sacrificial". A skeg hung or keel hung rudder that takes a major hit could suffer major damage that would have required a haul-out or could structurally damaged the hull or create a leak that sinks the boat. With a spade, the rudder may shear off but the boat would remain afloat and you could then work out a repair or emergency rudder or steer by dragging lines, etc.

As with many things on boats, gear/design will get a bad reputation based on incomplete stories. Most of the time when there is a failure of a spade rudder it is due to lack of maintenance. If you are not inspecting and maintaining any boat equipment properly, the equipment isn't to blame, the sailor is.
Yep, and it's usually the spade rudders that are falling off and/or the ones we hear folks having trouble with.

Also, a full keeled boat is much easy to "steer" with the sails only if the rudder were to fail.

And as far as the Global Ocean Racers, those guys have some awesome communication equipment on board not to mention most are being tracked unlike your average H20 guy on his Hunter or Catalina.
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Old 19-12-2013, 13:16   #45
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Yep, and it's usually the spade rudders that are falling off and/or the ones we hear folks having trouble with.
Are those rudders falling off because of lack of maintenance or a design flaw?

And not to be a dick, but prove it. Give me a link that supports this statement. And to review my previous statement, prove it with something that doesn't involve poor maintenance practice. All rudders can delaminate without maintenance. Not just spade rudders. Give me something where a spade rudder was hit by an object and the problem was worsened because it was a spade rudder.

Quote:
A full keeled boat is much easy to "steer" with the sails only if the rudder were to fail.
True, but by sails only isn't the only way to steer a boat with no rudder. You can drag a drogue, fashion an emergency rudder, etc. This also doesn't account for the types of rudder damage a full keel boat with an attached rudder can have. What if the rudder is jammed hard over and you can't get it out? You can address that easier with a spade rudder.

Quote:
And as far as the Global Ocean Racers, those guys have some awesome communication equipment on board not to mention most are being tracked unlike your average H20 guy on his Hunter or Catalina.
Yes, but what baring does this have on the reliability of spade rudders? The only time I can think of rudders being an issue is when Puma left Boston. A lobster pot line sawed through the rudder. And that happened a ways down the rudder and the problem was that a boat moving through the water at 25 knots dragging a lobster pot generated enough friction to cut through fiberglass. A skeg rudder would have had the same issue.

And this is not really a concern for a full keel because those can't even dream of going fast enough for this to be an issue.
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