Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2014, 13:55   #166
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

sorry, that was a worst case senereo. just had a lot of cracks around mast on deck and was repaired once. I just don't want to get stuck with a hughe problem. Like the boat. Seems like every one we seen has a problem. Seems like fridgerator is out, head has been plumbed so goes to tank or overboard.
It's a 33.5 Rigging seems very tight. hatches has missing brackets ti keep them tight. Reports say it sails fast. still learning and trying to figure out while to communicate, so thanks for any advice! dan
__________________

__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 14:30   #167
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Catalina or Hunter

h2O, probably what you're looking at is gelcoat stress cracks. In other words it's cosmetic and not structural. An '87 is bound to have some gelcoat cracks around the mast step. The compression post in those boats is no big deal. I've seen lots of older ones that look rotted, but they're actually solid and just water stained. Lots of Hunter owners shore them up with a chunk of 2" or so stainless tubing and all that takes is to remove the teak covers and some fitting for a shore-up pipe inside it.

Hunters fast - yeah, they typically got legs. I think the E dimension on the rig on your boat is like 13 or 14 feet and it has a fairly small foretriangle like the Legends. But with the fractional rig they don't need a big jib. They are pretty fun, and pretty forgiving. They don't sail like other boats because they depend on the main for most of the power on all points of sail, and the jib just provides some balance. So most of them come with a small genoa, like a 110 or 120. We looked at one but decided on the Legend 37 that we got instead, which is a little more of a "hotrod". Other than the fact that the 33.5 has a standard fractional rig vs the Legends with a cross-shroud B&R rig, the two boats are very similar.
__________________

__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 16:14   #168
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

wow, good to hear from you again Cruscoupl. that is great info. this process is beating me up. any concern for the dip forward of the mast? I guess we gota nail it down to how much work on a used boat. The 33.5 are rigged tight with mast flexing aft? man i gota get on the water! saw a cheap Irwin but gota see it. maybe get a solid boat and just add my extras, thanks again


QUOTE=CruisingCouple;1461051]h2O, probably what you're looking at is gelcoat stress cracks. In other words it's cosmetic and not structural. An '87 is bound to have some gelcoat cracks around the mast step. The compression post in those boats is no big deal. I've seen lots of older ones that look rotted, but they're actually solid and just water stained. Lots of Hunter owners shore them up with a chunk of 2" or so stainless tubing and all that takes is to remove the teak covers and some fitting for a shore-up pipe inside it.

Hunters fast - yeah, they typically got legs. I think the E dimension on the rig on your boat is like 13 or 14 feet and it has a fairly small foretriangle like the Legends. But with the fractional rig they don't need a big jib. They are pretty fun, and pretty forgiving. They don't sail like other boats because they depend on the main for most of the power on all points of sail, and the jib just provides some balance. So most of them come with a small genoa, like a 110 or 120. We looked at one but decided on the Legend 37 that we got instead, which is a little more of a "hotrod". Other than the fact that the 33.5 has a standard fractional rig vs the Legends with a cross-shroud B&R rig, the two boats are very similar.[/QUOTE]
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 17:09   #169
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20 View Post
wow, good to hear from you again Cruscoupl. that is great info. this process is beating me up. any concern for the dip forward of the mast? I guess we gota nail it down to how much work on a used boat. The 33.5 are rigged tight with mast flexing aft? man i gota get on the water! saw a cheap Irwin but gota see it. maybe get a solid boat and just add my extras, thanks again
I haven't seen this dip forward of the mast. Hunters have a marine plywood core under the mast instead of end grain balsa. I've never seen one rot out. If there's a dip then the deck was crushed by something at one point - maybe a crane operator making a slip during stepping the mast in her past? And then it was repaired? Jump on that dip and see if it's soft or not.

Yeah, a fractional rig can bend the mast aft and they're more "tunable" than a masthead rig. You can do some really neat things to sail shape with a fractional rig.

That boat don't have the B&R rig, so it was kind of an oddball. Somefolks don't like the B&R for cruising, but it's because they don't understand the rig. A B&R can't be sailed like a traditional rig, is all. As long as you're in that class of boat, if there's any Legend 35's around there for sale take a look at one just for giggles. The Legend has a bigger main and will carry more sail for the displacement. It has a little wider beam with more cabin room. Has better tankage for cruising (more fresh water and less fuel). Has a deeper fin keel with more "bite" and they are faster than hell on a reach. Keel stepped mast instead of deck stepped. B&R rig with crossed non-continuous shrouds, meaning you can break a shroud and the rig won't come down. And will probably be in the same price range.

I guarantee that if your wife liked the 33.5, once she looks at a Legend 35 she'll be in love, and she'll want to go cruising and not come back. The Cherubini Hunters and the Legends were two of the best boats that Hunter ever built IMO.
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 19:02   #170
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,032
Core of any sort under a deck stepped mast is eventually a problem IMHO. In my 1966 Luders the plywood core eventually compressed and delaminated in about 1985 and the prior owner had the core removed and solid glass laid in to rebuild the mast base. No problems since then.

A dip in the deck is suspicious for core compression or compression post failure/compression. Probably can just watch if you're coastal cruising only, as I can't imagine sudden catastrophic failure from thi, probably just progressive failure over time.

Just keep tightening the rigging as the mast step compresses and you'll be fine.
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 07:55   #171
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

cool, will do. hard to stave off the need to be in the keys!
Talk to you soon, will post boat if we ever get one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
I haven't seen this dip forward of the mast. Hunters have a marine plywood core under the mast instead of end grain balsa. I've never seen one rot out. If there's a dip then the deck was crushed by something at one point - maybe a crane operator making a slip during stepping the mast in her past? And then it was repaired? Jump on that dip and see if it's soft or not.

Yeah, a fractional rig can bend the mast aft and they're more "tunable" than a masthead rig. You can do some really neat things to sail shape with a fractional rig.

That boat don't have the B&R rig, so it was kind of an oddball. Somefolks don't like the B&R for cruising, but it's because they don't understand the rig. A B&R can't be sailed like a traditional rig, is all. As long as you're in that class of boat, if there's any Legend 35's around there for sale take a look at one just for giggles. The Legend has a bigger main and will carry more sail for the displacement. It has a little wider beam with more cabin room. Has better tankage for cruising (more fresh water and less fuel). Has a deeper fin keel with more "bite" and they are faster than hell on a reach. Keel stepped mast instead of deck stepped. B&R rig with crossed non-continuous shrouds, meaning you can break a shroud and the rig won't come down. And will probably be in the same price range.

I guarantee that if your wife liked the 33.5, once she looks at a Legend 35 she'll be in love, and she'll want to go cruising and not come back. The Cherubini Hunters and the Legends were two of the best boats that Hunter ever built IMO.
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 07:58   #172
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

thank you good to know. going to pass on this boat. he's trying to flip it and priced 7 under markte

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Core of any sort under a deck stepped mast is eventually a problem IMHO. In my 1966 Luders the plywood core eventually compressed and delaminated in about 1985 and the prior owner had the core removed and solid glass laid in to rebuild the mast base. No problems since then.

A dip in the deck is suspicious for core compression or compression post failure/compression. Probably can just watch if you're coastal cruising only, as I can't imagine sudden catastrophic failure from thi, probably just progressive failure over time.

Just keep tightening the rigging as the mast step compresses and you'll be fine.
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 09:32   #173
Registered User
 
Sailing Cowboy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Home Port: West Palm Beach, Live: Seattle
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 473
Posts: 315
Re: Catalina or Hunter

FWIW I like the lines and the little details of the Catalina's over the Hunters. I think you made a good decision. Keep looking. Better to have something you really love sitting in the keys rather than some annoying thing that's going to bother you. I fell in love with a Catalina 350.
__________________
IYT Yachtmaster Offshore Sail & Power Instructor
ICC Certificate of Competency Instructor
Sailing Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 11:57   #174
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20 View Post
cool, will do. hard to stave off the need to be in the keys!
Ah, you know - I forgot about the Keys since the last posts on this thread. Definitely don't be looking at 6-7 foot draft Legends. You won't be happy. Those boats need deep water.

Here's a thought for you, since you're looking and fairly new to sailing;

For 8 years we sailed our '81 Hunter 22 on Lake Superior, Huron and Michigan and went on two two-week long 1,000 mile cruises with it. We love the boat, still own it, and won't part it with it because it does things bigger boats can't do. It has a swing centerboard (keel). We can make anchorages on remote islands in bays and coves that other boats, including most powerboats, can't make. With the centerboard down she draws 5 feet, with the board up she draws 2 feet. We can get that boat right up to the beach and just hop off the bow in most places.

You and your wife are mainly looking at the cabin amenities for liveaboard. But onboard a sailboat the vast majority of your time is spent in the cockpit, both at sea and on on the hook, not below deck. We had a custom cockpit cover made for our 22 (cost us $900) that snaps on the cockpit and over the companionway hatch that turns the cockpit into extra living space on the hook. We grill our food, eat, relax, read, browse the internet on our tablet computer (if we got wifi from the marina) etc. in there. The main halyard pulls the cover up into a tent sort of enclosure for the cockpit and we got screens on it to keep bugs out, plus storm flaps that close if it rains, and 7 feet of standing room in it. Seems I never took take any photos of that setup over the years to show you. The boat is sitting on the hard right now with the mast down. But as soon as we get a warm day (below zero here right now) I could step the mast and raise the cockpit cover and take a pic of it to show you how it works, if it's something that interests you on how other people do things.

The other thing is that a tiller steer boat gives you more room in the cockpit than a wheel, and most of these swing centerboard boats in the 22 to 26 foot class have a tiller so they have cockpit room that rivals most 30-35 footers.

I know it sounds kind of weird, h2O, but you're not going to spend much of your time actually living below deck. For people that have only lived in a house, and never spent much time onboard a sailboat, that's hard to understand. But it's the truth. On hot nights we even sleep in the cockpit - throw down a blanket and a couple pillows and stretch out on the cockpit seats. Nice breeze blowing thru the cockpit, and it's nice and comfortable while it's hotter than blazes down in the cabin and feels like you been stuffed in a box.

Just some considerations for you. Having never done it, I suspect it will turn out different than what you perceive it to be. You're concentrating on what's below deck and pretty furniture and floor plans. What's above deck is just as important, or even more so.
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 12:27   #175
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Currently Channel Islands
Boat: Cheoy Lee 66 M/Y & Cambria 44 S/V - Captain Lurssen 145
Posts: 43
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Not to piss of the group of people that like to tout what is a bluewater boat and what is not I think either Hunter or Catalina are fine boats. I've never owned either make but have sailed on many them. I had a very close friend who rounded Cape Horn in a Hunter 45 and completed two circumnavigations in it without major incident. Some might argue he was lucky but I'd say after the first loop luck was not a factor. Everything is dependent on the skill set of the crew or single hander and the condition the boat was purchased in. Also rigging and other factors play a role as well. As a professional full-time captain for close to 30 years I've seen some very questionable vessels sail into port from distant locations in not so fair seas. Not to say some vessels are not built to a better standard than another I just never got hung up on it. Not to sound offensive or reckless I find most people that classify what a bluewater cruiser and what's not are the ones that spend years over equipping their boats. When I was 19 a friend and I sailed a 32ft Islander from FL to Cape Town with broken down electronics and she was in questionable condition for the trip by almost all peoples standards. We experienced some pretty nasty systems and made it there without incident. Now I'm not condoning going to sea unprepared or ill-equipped but rather making the point that in most cases it's the sailor not the boat that completes the journey and the same goes for the vessels performance.
__________________
sealubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 12:33   #176
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Lupe and I love reading your post, she laughing at me now about the sleeping out in the cockpit. So true about being out side. I sailed when young and my dad rented a 43ft Hinkly and we sailed the heck out of it in the BVI. Tufualupe (from Samoa) even thought of one of those cheap M 26 motor sailers. HA!! would not even need a dingy. It would so easy to slither around shallow spots. After living in Charlotte harbor, you can see thousands of spots to hang around. The only thing is the "no see ums" will kick your teeth in at night. Right now all I care about is a solid mast step, deck, motor, sails, rigging. All other I can add. Seems like a lot of boats have tons of extras with high hour motor, bad mast step ect.... but at least when one come on the market we will know!
chears and stay warm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
Ah, you know - I forgot about the Keys since the last posts on this thread. Definitely don't be looking at 6-7 foot draft Legends. You won't be happy. Those boats need deep water.

Here's a thought for you, since you're looking and fairly new to sailing;

For 8 years we sailed our '81 Hunter 22 on Lake Superior, Huron and Michigan and went on two two-week long 1,000 mile cruises with it. We love the boat, still own it, and won't part it with it because it does things bigger boats can't do. It has a swing centerboard (keel). We can make anchorages on remote islands in bays and coves that other boats, including most powerboats, can't make. With the centerboard down she draws 5 feet, with the board up she draws 2 feet. We can get that boat right up to the beach and just hop off the bow in most places.

You and your wife are mainly looking at the cabin amenities for liveaboard. But onboard a sailboat the vast majority of your time is spent in the cockpit, both at sea and on on the hook, not below deck. We had a custom cockpit cover made for our 22 (cost us $900) that snaps on the cockpit and over the companionway hatch that turns the cockpit into extra living space on the hook. We grill our food, eat, relax, read, browse the internet on our tablet computer (if we got wifi from the marina) etc. in there. The main halyard pulls the cover up into a tent sort of enclosure for the cockpit and we got screens on it to keep bugs out, plus storm flaps that close if it rains, and 7 feet of standing room in it. Seems I never took take any photos of that setup over the years to show you. The boat is sitting on the hard right now with the mast down. But as soon as we get a warm day (below zero here right now) I could step the mast and raise the cockpit cover and take a pic of it to show you how it works, if it's something that interests you on how other people do things.

The other thing is that a tiller steer boat gives you more room in the cockpit than a wheel, and most of these swing centerboard boats in the 22 to 26 foot class have a tiller so they have cockpit room that rivals most 30-35 footers.

I know it sounds kind of weird, h2O, but you're not going to spend much of your time actually living below deck. For people that have only lived in a house, and never spent much time onboard a sailboat, that's hard to understand. But it's the truth. On hot nights we even sleep in the cockpit - throw down a blanket and a couple pillows and stretch out on the cockpit seats. Nice breeze blowing thru the cockpit, and it's nice and comfortable while it's hotter than blazes down in the cabin and feels like you been stuffed in a box.

Just some considerations for you. Having never done it, I suspect it will turn out different than what you perceive it to be. You're concentrating on what's below deck and pretty furniture and floor plans. What's above deck is just as important, or even more so.
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 12:47   #177
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Thanks Sealubber thats right on the money. I know its' not to big a deal campared to seasoned sailers. But I been in big seas and wind out in a 17 foot skiff. Noramla conditions is 20 min trip, But took three hours to get back battleing hypothermea and almost ran out of gas. But not panic, stay the course. and many miles out in a 12 foot boat hughe swells off the Big Island Hawaii. You know how life is, keep your witts and not panic is a lot of it. Wouldn't mind having a water maker and and some important stuff. But with all the stories we plan on taking it slow before any long trips. To you, what the most important thing about a crossing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sealubber View Post
Not to piss of the group of people that like to tout what is a bluewater boat and what is not I think either Hunter or Catalina are fine boats. I've never owned either make but have sailed on many them. I had a very close friend who rounded Cape Horn in a Hunter 45 and completed two circumnavigations in it without major incident. Some might argue he was lucky but I'd say after the first loop luck was not a factor. Everything is dependent on the skill set of the crew or single hander and the condition the boat was purchased in. Also rigging and other factors play a role as well. As a professional full-time captain for close to 30 years I've seen some very questionable vessels sail into port from distant locations in not so fair seas. Not to say some vessels are not built to a better standard than another I just never got hung up on it. Not to sound offensive or reckless I find most people that classify what a bluewater cruiser and what's not are the ones that spend years over equipping their boats. When I was 19 a friend and I sailed a 32ft Islander from FL to Cape Town with broken down electronics and she was in questionable condition for the trip by almost all peoples standards. We experienced some pretty nasty systems and made it there without incident. Now I'm not condoning going to sea unprepared or ill-equipped but rather making the point that in most cases it's the sailor not the boat that completes the journey and the same goes for the vessels performance.
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 12:49   #178
h20
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 199
Re: Catalina or Hunter

word!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy View Post
FWIW I like the lines and the little details of the Catalina's over the Hunters. I think you made a good decision. Keep looking. Better to have something you really love sitting in the keys rather than some annoying thing that's going to bother you. I fell in love with a Catalina 350.
__________________
h20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 13:21   #179
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Catalina or Hunter

The way I had understood this, after remembering what the thread is all about, is that h2O just wants a boat that's easy to learn how to sail, easy to maintain, and has enough room for he and his wife to liveaboard at least part time in the Keys. He's not really looking for a "blue water boat" - whatever that is - because we met a German couple once that sailed a MacGregor 26 from Europe to Belize. And they were setting sail for the Panama Canal and going to Hawaii on that boat.

So when we've been in the Keys we've seen all sort of people with outboard, tiller steer, swing keelers doing just that. They sail 'em all over the place down there. Get rid of a Yanmar or old Westerbeke diesel sitting inside the hull, plus trade the wheel for a tiller, and you gain a lot room for stowage and cockpit that it takes much bigger boats to equal with those things inside the hull.

If you want economical to buy, simple systems that are easy to maintain, and still pretty decent room inside, both Hunter and Catalina built 'em for years. It's a shame they don't build many of those boats anymore, as everybody thinks these days you have to have a 40 footer or it's not a "blue water boat", so you can't sail it out beyond the bay. But for island hopping in the Keys and part time liveaboard? We'd trailer our Hunter 22 to Miami and do it in a heartbeat.

In fact, now I think about it, what am I doing sitting up here by Lake Superior looking at ice at 20 below zero, and working on a Legend 37 in the shop and dreaming about it? We could throw everything in the H22, toss the dinghy into the back of the truck and be sailing for Key West by the end of next week
__________________
CruisingCouple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 13:30   #180
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Currently Channel Islands
Boat: Cheoy Lee 66 M/Y & Cambria 44 S/V - Captain Lurssen 145
Posts: 43
Re: Catalina or Hunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20 View Post
Thanks Sealubber thats right on the money. I know its' not to big a deal campared to seasoned sailers. But I been in big seas and wind out in a 17 foot skiff. Noramla conditions is 20 min trip, But took three hours to get back battleing hypothermea and almost ran out of gas. But not panic, stay the course. and many miles out in a 12 foot boat hughe swells off the Big Island Hawaii. You know how life is, keep your witts and not panic is a lot of it. Wouldn't mind having a water maker and and some important stuff. But with all the stories we plan on taking it slow before any long trips. To you, what the most important thing about a crossing?
I don't comfortable giving advice on what you need to cross. As for the watermaker if it's in your budget there is no reason not to have one. Get the biggest one you can afford and fit in the boat is my only advice on that because all of them notoriously fail especially the lower gph ones.

For water it's safe to say aside from your tankage you'll always want to have bladders and gallons filled with fresh water properly stored and evenly distributed.
__________________

__________________
sealubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
catalina, hunter

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.