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Old 07-01-2019, 13:23   #61
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Get yourself a good late model Hunter that is 25 years old or less. They are great Blue water boats and are CE certified. They handle well and will take on most anything. I have taken my Passage 450 to the Sea of Cortez from LA twice, and therefore done the Baja Bash twice with 12-15ft waves. Hunters handle well and are faster than older boats. Anyone who tells you that modern production boats are not good for blue water is just biased toward older, heavier, slower boats. Plus they have tons of living space inside.
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Old 07-01-2019, 13:28   #62
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

"Most groundings happen coastally, not in offshore passages., so in that sense, well, you get the picture."

Many groundings happen at the start or end of a passage. As most accidents happen close to home so do most groundings.

Experiencing a grounding with a light weight bolt on fin keel yacht in a remote location where a haul out is not available would be quite stressful.

Best to avoid the whole scenario. Sail on an encased fin keel or full keel yacht.
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Old 07-01-2019, 14:14   #63
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Read up on “Sailboat Design Ratios “ They can add some objective sauce on the consideration. One example: We crossed from Corpus Christi TX to Pensacola. Fl on a heavy displacement Passport 42 along with a buddy boat Catalina 400, much lighter vessel. 30 kt winds. 12’ seas with the occassionl 16-20 footer wave. The Passport punched through the waves and the Catalina rode on top. We had a relatively smooth experience compared to the crew of the Catalina. With the huge Catalina cockpit they were struggling to brace themselves constantly for the roller coaster ride. We could easily drink our tea and consume the woderf bowls of food prepared down below. Each boat made the crossing in tact but the heavy one was far more comfortable.
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Old 07-01-2019, 14:46   #64
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

I use to sell Catalinas in late 80's Good boat structurally. They are not good sailors though. The finishes are not very good either. Back then the interiors were oiled no varnished. They are built as a sailboat / condo. It sounds like that's what you want to live-aboard and cruise up and down the coast.

A friend of mine had a Bene 411 and cruised it for 2 years on the East Coast and the Bahamas. He was very happy with the boat even though it had an In Mast Furling main. Jeanneaus' are pretty close to Bene's. They are now owned by Bene and made in their factories. I sailed a new 57' to Bermuda a few years back. Wouldn't want to cross an open ocean in it but running down offshore for a day or so with weather routing with and ability to duck in if the weather turns bad you'll be fine.

Make a list of what is most important to you. Then narrow your options down to keep within your budget. Keep in mind you will probably want to upgrade things on the boat for your purpose. Electronics, anchor gear, safety gear, etc
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Old 07-01-2019, 15:30   #65
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Such rubbish. There are production boats from Benneteau, Jeanneau and many others all cruising the oceans successfully. You may not like them but to suggest that they are only good for a day or two offshore is just plain silly.



Dumb posts just make the poster look dumb.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Happ View Post
... I sailed a new 57' to Bermuda a few years back. Wouldn't want to cross an open ocean in it but running down offshore for a day or so with weather routing with and ability to duck in if the weather turns bad you'll be fine...
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Old 07-01-2019, 15:51   #66
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by kevinof View Post
Such rubbish. There are production boats from Benneteau, Jeanneau and many others all cruising the oceans successfully. You may not like them but to suggest that they are only good for a day or two offshore is just plain silly.



Dumb posts just make the poster look dumb.
Not only some, but heaps. I don't think many realize how many of these boats are circumnavigating.

It's not even a question of if they are capable, they prove they are, over and over again. How many need to circumnavigate successfully before this is accepted fact?
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Old 07-01-2019, 16:35   #67
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Not only some, but heaps. I don't think many realize how many of these boats are circumnavigating.

It's not even a question of if they are capable, they prove they are, over and over again. How many need to circumnavigate successfully before this is accepted fact?

You can go over Niagra Falls in a barrel too, but I wouldn't recommend it.

This thread began because the poster asked for opinions hopefully based on folks own experience.

I once heard a pretty cool story about a young man who got laid off, became homeless and bought or salvaged a very cheap small sailboat like a an old Pearson 30 or Alberg 30. He cut a blue tarp into a sail repaired the Atomic 4 and sailed it to Key West down the Inter-coastal.

That story does not suggest that you can make useful sails out of a blue tarp.

I personally would not take a production yacht offshore largely because I wouldn't buy one, I just don't like them. They do not appeal to my personal aesthetic. And the Bene's and the X-43 I've sailed aboard have been disappointments. In my opinion they have some serious design flaws that some folks would tolerate but I would not. And that is what the poster of this thread wants to know; my own personal experience. not someone living vicariously through the experiences of others.

I was cooking on a Bene 41.7, the yacht unexpectedly lurched and I was thrown into the saloon table and I destroyed it; completely. The plastic hinges broke, the small screws in the sole broke from the stanchion and the table was trash.

Do other folks sail on production yachts in the open ocean? Sure they do. And a lot more of them are lost or damaged or quit because the boat is just not up to the task than you will ever know too. But that is not what the gentleman who initiated this thread wanted to know.

In fact how many times do you see "Blue water passage maker for sale due to change of plans?" And then it is a production yacht for sale in some obscure and remote location.

Bob Perry, I believe, once made a comment that some of those "production" yachts have no business sailing beyond sight of land. Bob Perry should know as his opinion is based upon a lifetime professional design career.

An old writer of sea stories once said that you should go to sea in the boat you have got. I'm too sure about the wisdom of that statement but I can understand the sentiment.
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Old 07-01-2019, 17:55   #68
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

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I personally would not take a production yacht offshore largely because I wouldn't buy one, I just don't like them.
If you were to buy a boat what would it be ?
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Old 07-01-2019, 18:53   #69
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rav555 View Post
You can go over Niagra Falls in a barrel too, but I wouldn't recommend it.

This thread began because the poster asked for opinions hopefully based on folks own experience.

I once heard a pretty cool story about a young man who got laid off, became homeless and bought or salvaged a very cheap small sailboat like a an old Pearson 30 or Alberg 30. He cut a blue tarp into a sail repaired the Atomic 4 and sailed it to Key West down the Inter-coastal.

That story does not suggest that you can make useful sails out of a blue tarp.

I personally would not take a production yacht offshore largely because I wouldn't buy one, I just don't like them. They do not appeal to my personal aesthetic. And the Bene's and the X-43 I've sailed aboard have been disappointments. In my opinion they have some serious design flaws that some folks would tolerate but I would not. And that is what the poster of this thread wants to know; my own personal experience. not someone living vicariously through the experiences of others.

I was cooking on a Bene 41.7, the yacht unexpectedly lurched and I was thrown into the saloon table and I destroyed it; completely. The plastic hinges broke, the small screws in the sole broke from the stanchion and the table was trash.

Do other folks sail on production yachts in the open ocean? Sure they do. And a lot more of them are lost or damaged or quit because the boat is just not up to the task than you will ever know too. But that is not what the gentleman who initiated this thread wanted to know.

In fact how many times do you see "Blue water passage maker for sale due to change of plans?" And then it is a production yacht for sale in some obscure and remote location.

Bob Perry, I believe, once made a comment that some of those "production" yachts have no business sailing beyond sight of land. Bob Perry should know as his opinion is based upon a lifetime professional design career.

An old writer of sea stories once said that you should go to sea in the boat you have got. I'm too sure about the wisdom of that statement but I can understand the sentiment.
Please substantiate your claim that many are lost, or owners get off them due to them not being up to the task.

Making such a statement without any facts just shows ignorance. When you post such rubbish you are actually lieing to support your own non factual based biases, and unfortunately people than come here with little knowledge maybe influenced by this nonsense.

In 9 years of full-time international cruising I've never seen anything that would support your claim.

I challenge you to support your claims with facts,numbers ,data etc......you can't.
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Old 07-01-2019, 19:24   #70
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

I sail a 2003 Hunter 356 bought new. Fine boat, have 9,645 miles on it in 16 seasons. Been to Florida and back from Kentucky Lake, across GOM twice, coastal cruising and Intercoastal from Mobile to Key West. Great boat for me and my wife and have spent 1141 days on board. Great space inside, great cockpit and I like the rigging setup. I have a condo on the water with generator full time and Tracvision Dish Network. Easy to maneuver in marinas and good at anchor. Averages about .75 Gph including the generator at 6 knots when motoring. Good fuel and water quantity. I don’t plan on going to Bora Bora, so this boat suits me just fine.
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Old 07-01-2019, 19:43   #71
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
If you were to buy a boat what would it be ?
I have been looking and waiting for a Hutting 40 but they do not often become available. I like Dick Koopmans designs though so likely an Aluminium or Steel Koopmans 39 to 43 foot yacht is what I am looking for.

A Breehorn 37 is a great little GRP yacht and so is Victoire 12.70, though I do not particularly want GRP. What I like about Koopmans designs is they have a flush fore deck and the decks in general are not cluttered as the saloon top is rather short and ends well aft of the spar. They are also cutter rigged in general with a comparatively large mainsail.

They are also Dutch built one offs and have that little extra and are considered eminently seaworthy yachts. Dick Zaal is also a designer I would consider buying. His aluminium Northern Comfort 43 is just a bit light though.

Another Dutch built yacht worth considering is the Kvase 13.50 Google "Tur Kvase"! That yacht is awesome it was sold a couple of years ago! Kvase 13.50 is a high latitude expedition yach, built to go anywhere; 18 metric tons!!

Dick Zaal also designed the Skarpsno 41 but that is a split rig (ketch) and I prefer a mast head cutter rig. Don't get me wrong a ketch is a good rig I just do not prefer it. And Skarpsno 41 is a great Colin Archer double-ender desin executed in steel.

Then of course there is Nordkaper, Puffin and Bestavaer yachts but they are in general lifting keel yachts and I do not prefer variable draft yachts even though the Dutch seem enamored of them, I guess there is lots of shallow water within their shores. The Netherlands has an inordinate amount of yacht designers and quality yacht builders for such a small country and they are all bespoke or one-off builds for going places.
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Old 07-01-2019, 20:03   #72
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Asking one to back up a wild claim such as the one you made, with facts is not trolling, it's shining a light on a mistruth. If you can prove your "opinion" to be correct I am more than happy to say I was wrong and I stand corrected. Please back your statement, seriously,I'm open to being wrong.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but you presented your bias as a fact, which it is not. I can give you many examples of people I personally know that are and have safely and comfortably circumnavigated on production boats, it's not my opinion that they sail the world, it's a fact they do and have in large numbers, look at the arc rally as an example.

The boats you mentioned in a previous post are obviously fine vessels, I understand why you like them and I can also understand you not liking or wanting production boats, people's tastes and wallets vary BUT just because you have a preference dosent make a statement like "many production boats aren't upto the task true".

You don't like Beneteaus etc,that's fine BUT don't make stuff up.

I do apologize if I come across as harsh BUT people with little knowledge read this forum and it's hard for them to determine fact from fiction.
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Old 07-01-2019, 22:23   #73
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Having circumnavigated in a Catalina 42mkII, crossed the pacific in a Catalina 470 and currently cruising SE Asia in a Catalina 445 I would say Yes they are fine for coastal cruising. Don
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Old 07-01-2019, 23:08   #74
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

A couple of nicely written articles from Sail Magazine about ocean crossing with Hunters:

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...-and-the-mouse
https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...enture-hunters
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:45   #75
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Re: Catalina/Beneteau/Hunter/Jeanneau good enough for coastal cruising?

Personally, I would rather have a production boat for coastal and bluewater. Those companies produce more, have more people on staff, money for research, high tech equipment,and can afford to pay and get highly qualified designers. I will take that any day over a small little company. Take a Ferrari, yes its an expensive car, but the still have a parts department, and a service garage. No matter how you look at it it is still a production car. Could you buy one yes but the repair bills would be horrendous. After owning a parts store and seeing the suppliers charge more for something that said Cadillac and the exact same part for a chevy was half. i will take and keep my Ford truck.
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