Catalina 30 vs Columbia 36

[dr3v01ution]

thanks Butler, Its good to know its not a one sided opinion. Its good to keep in mind about the buyers market. About the cash thing, what is the best option for payment?

[SkiprJohn]

You need to get some estimates from boat repair folks. The numbers are going to be all over the place in this economy. Shop for who will do the repair best.

Did you mention that you have sailed a bit? If you haven't then I'd get some experience before committing to a boat and especially one as large as a 36.

kind regards,

[squarpeg]

Yes I agree with the last statement, give a low ball offer to begin with. When I sold my last boat I think I ended up taking about 30% less then my asking price which I thought was low to begin with. It hurt to accept that offer, but as is often the case I was no where near the boat, it was costing me money each month. Looking back on it I am really glad I took that offer. Boat owners are often desperate to rid themselves of a boat they can't or don't use. Explain to the seller all the stuff you don't like about the boat, stuff the needs to fixed, that old gas engine etc. Then offer up a low ball price, something that is a bargain for you. They may balk, they might get a bit offended, they may tell you then what they really think they could accept. If you can stand it, make sure they have your contact# and tell them your looking at a couple of boats that week but if they want to reconsider to give you a call. Wait a week, if they have not called you can always go back with another offer or in the end meet their price. These types of boats will always be on the market, there is no need to rush.

[Butler]

Not to work this topic to death but...
Squarpeg is right.
When I bought Molly B I came with green money to pay full on the spot and got her for half the asking price, seeing all that cash greases the skids for any owner anxious to move on. Mind you I've spent as much again on necessary repairs and then a bit more to improve her performance something you can anticipate unless you are lucky enough to find a real gem that if neglected hasn't suffered much for it.
I also agree that it will be well worth the trouble to bring someone along who knows boats and really take a GOOD look. I've been happy to help a couple of folks this way for nothing just because I like looking at boats. A lot of value in hanging out at marinas, talking to folks and making friends. Often boats available w/o for sale signs on them where the owner is dragging her/his feet about selling.
It's possible with a bit of tact to avoid offending durng negotiations...I once booted a prospective buyer off my boat because of how aggressive he was talking down the boat. Gotta do it, but be nice.

Good luck!

[foggysail]

I just scanned this thread so I might have missed something. My comments are few. First, there are tons & tons of old boats in the market. I personally would avoid anything that needed heavy work on anything. Those with water intrusion are a PROBLEM! My old Hunter 30 was a fine boat but that thing had an above deck leak that I could not find in over the 25 years I owned it and I did search thoroughly for it. Make sure the decks are sound (mine were); engine....personally, I do not recommend gasoline but that would not stop me from a purchase but a raw water cooled engine would be out of the question.

Be careful of ANYTHING PAINTED!!! Paint covers a lot of damage repairs such as on the hull. Keel & rudder. Nothing worse than losing a rudder. I like the idea of a skegged rudder that will prevent the rudder from dropping off and also minimize damage to the rudder from hitting junk. My Hunter had a fin keel (4000#s of lead) which was fine. But personally, if I was purchasing another sailboat I would avoid a fin keel. Finally, carefully examine the chain plates and how they are mounted. Many times the chain plates are not structurally sound due to leaks and further, if they lack mechanical integrity, tightening the shrouds can cause the hull itself to distort.

Good luck--

[crashkahuna]

I would look for a diesel (although I had a Cal 2-30 in Hawaii with A4 and it ran fine). I like the 29 - 35' range for slip selection but maybe you already have a slip for her. The thing I notice on the older boats there are soft decks, worn gelcoat (actually mine was a painted boat), leaky windows/stanchions, worn out running and standing rigging. Be sure to look at the sails - if restitching needed that's easy but some are way sun damaged. Have fun! I have dealt with Ala Wai and Kokua brokerage and found them both good to deal with. PM me if you need surveyor/inspector references.

[dr3v01ution]

Thanks Crash, Foggy, Butler, SquarPeg, Skipper John,

I think the "low balling" is a great idea. Since I am kind of up in the air about a few boats, seeing how low they are willing to go would help me get a good idea of what they are worth. Plus with practically no slips available here I imagine everyone is having a hard time selling their boats. This makes it difficult and expensive for me in the long run, but maybe I can save some money on the purchase itself. I'm taking a look at a few more boats today and tomorrow and going to get really into them and keep detailed notes.

Tact is not one of my strong qualities, so any hints on how to be a little aggressive but not offensive?

Any opinions or things I should be looking for on the boats I'm trying to look at:

Allied Princess 30 $10k
BLUE WATER SAILBOAT ALLIED PRINCESS

Cal 2 30 $16k
Cal 2-30 Race, Cruise, Live a board

Islander 30 $10
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/2309347040.html

Thanks again! Everyone has been very helpful, to what is one of the bigger decisions in my life!

[crashkahuna]

With Keehi and La Mariana hit hard by the tsunami and some boats damaged it could be difficult to find a slip. All the more reason to have survey if they were moored in the lagoon. Cal could be good but need more pics and info on engine. There is a Cal29 in Ala Wai that might be good. But again in Hawaii you need to find the slip or mooring first and then the boat.

Also if I was buying via craigslist I would check the title with the state - it's easy to do.

[dr3v01ution]

Hey Crash,

Yeah I'm trying to work out the slip thing, especially with the tsunami. I've had various suggestions, I think temporary mooring will work. How do I do the title check with the state? Just call up the DMV I imagine?

Thanks

[SkiprJohn]

The Allied Princess is a great boat but I believe it to be a 36 not a 30. It is well worth going to look at. If it is in halfway decent shape it is a good deal. They are world cruisers unlike the Catalina 30 you had in mind but the interior is going to be smaller than a lot of 36s due to the older design. They are built tough.

I don't like the way Cal 2-30s handle downwind.

kind regards,

[lookoutnw]

The Columbia is a much stronger built boat. Keel bolts are a normal issue but an easy fix on them. I suggest you get on Yahoo Groups cor Columbia Sailing Yachts and you will be able to see 1million or more threads for guys who know their stuff. Charlie Morgan was on for a while just before Dr David Parker passed on to the better sailing place.

[gon2sea]

theres alot of missconceptions about columbias, the early ones are better built, (pre 67) after that they are mass produced, that includes the 36 however it doesnt mean they are not sturdy.
the idea was to keep the cost down, the interior was " dropped in " by means of ahull liner, a common practice today by most manufacturers.
the 45' was always looked at like a floating condo, however the underbody was the same as the 43, a fast very capable sailboat. the single biggest issue is the keel bolts, lift the floor boards and look at them, if there is still some theads left ABOVE the nuts it should be fine as, from my experience, the treads where the nut is should still be untouched. on the 36 the keel mounting surface is VERY strong, close to 3" thick and all columbia keels are very well beded in, the early days equivalent of 5200.
most columbias came off the drawing boards of major designers, bill trip, Crealock ( the 36 ) sprakman stevens, so, as a whole they are good sailing boats. the 36 was in its days a "racer cruiser " performance is very similar to an islander 36. all 36's had lead ballast, they did have 3 different keel shape...
the diesel in the 36 is a good selling point, walk the deck... anysoft spots, grab the stanchions, do they feel solid, the hull is solid glass, the deck is balsa core.
ive owned many boats ranging from 30 to 78ft, given a choice between the catalina 30 and the columbia i would pick the columbia, alot of the decision has to do with how handy you are, the price, slip fees, what kind of use for the boat, plans for sailing trips....etc...
here a link with some pictures.

Picasa Web Albums - eric bureau - columbia 36#

[malbert73]

Both of these listings seem overpriced. You should be able to find a good "project boat" in this range of quality for <20K asking. Of course, if you can get either for 15K or so, will be worth it possibly. Just remember refit costs add up- I bought my boat for under 16K with a new Yanmar and no soft decks, and still have spent over 10K on cosmetic, rigging, and lifeline upgrades.
Don't forget sails also- a new genoa or main is between 1500-2000 each.

[dr3v01ution]

I put in a bid for 12, and the owner came back with 13. One of the surveyors Im talking to says 13 is a red flag but he said he would look it over before doing a full inspection... i guess thats the way to go.

[gon2sea]

ANY boat needs something done.... no matter how you look at it, $13,000 for a 36ft boat is a great deal if its halfway solid. you have to keep in mind that hawaii is a small market so im sure the boat prices might be higher that in the continental US, also, the columbia has a newer diesel, that in itself is a $2500 to $5000 bonus.
a few soft spots in the deck can be fixed with elbow grease and penetrating epoxy.
theres TONS of great used sails out there, creativity is the key....
many people claim most columbias are not Water boats">blue water boats.... ive seen mcgregor 65's all over the place, you can push their hulls in with one finger...if they can make ANY boat can make it...