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Old 19-12-2015, 06:59   #31
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

I saw someone already mentioned the keel stub repair (Catalina smile), but also check to make sure the glasses in "pipes" have been replaced by real thru hull fittings.

This was a major point for us when we shopped for a Catalina 30.
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Old 19-12-2015, 09:06   #32
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Are you sure? Mine is 29' and she does well enough
The Pardeys have an 28' boat, no engine, and no way are your plans "bigger" then what they're doing / have done.

I'm assuming you're aware considering in one of your (many ) other topics you posted you made an offer on a 32' boat. I think. Haha, I'm confused, too many topics still going
I just know what i am looking for. I know that i do not like to feel like a sardine in a can. I want to be comfortable if i am permanently going to liveaboard. Everything i have read says that a 30 foot sailboat is not going to make me happy.

While it is a good sailboat, it is not a natural blue water sailboat. Sure, it can survive blue water but like others have said you have to be on top of your game for that because of the size.

I am confused when it comes to all the demands of this forum.

Don't post this, don't post that, too many topics, etc. etc. etc.
Even called rude? Told to use google and so on.

I am here to ask questions. While i am sure that that there is some information already on the site about the sailboats that i am interested on, not all information here addresses my concerns.

Sure someone might ask about the same sailboat that i am interested on, but not everyone asks their questions the same and not all answers here about a particular sailboat touch on all the things that i am interested.

Too many threads? This is a "forum" right? I ask in each thread a particular questions about a particular sailboat. I do not see the harm in doing it like that. I then can go back to each particular thread and re-read the information when i need a refresh on that info on that particular sailboat.

Why would i want to ask a million questions about 5 different sailboats in one thread? It would make it confusing.

A forum is a place to ask questions and to have discussions and read answers. I have gone over a lot of info here and there are many questions unanswered after i have gone through a million threads and posts here.

While i am not aware of the statistics i am sure everyday more people join the forum, new people, with new insights, new answers, new perspectives and angles. Sure, there is already information here about the same topic, but not all information is the same and someone always haves a different perspective, view, angle, understanding, or an aha answer that it may not be answered in the old posts.

And also, how come i do not see more people supporting the website monetarily? $15/mo is a pittance and sets a good example and it supports a great website with fantastic resources and people to connect with.

Finally my friend, i have decided that a Catalina 30 is definitely not the sailboat for me. I am not interested in selling and buying a second sailboat. The sailboat that i buy now will probably stay with me until the end.

Seasons greetings to all!
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Old 19-12-2015, 09:43   #33
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

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Originally Posted by CaptRican View Post
I just know what i am looking for.
I am confused when it comes to all the demands of this forum.

Don't post this, don't post that, too many topics, etc. etc. etc.
Even called rude? Told to use google and so on.

I am here to ask questions. While i am sure that that there is some information already on the site about the sailboats that i am interested on, not all information here addresses my concerns.
It's OK to ask about a boat you're seriously interested in. It's better to use the search function first, as much of the information you're asking about has already been discussed.

Over the past two days, you've inquired about a Catalina 30, a Catalina 35, a Pearson 323, and an Island Packet 38. Those boats aren't comparable in terms of price, so one of your basic requirements isn't nailed down enough to provide advice. What's your price range? That's going to rule out some of those boats before you even start.

Now that's just plain rude. It's rude because people here will take some time and offer opinions on those boats, but you're wasting their time if what you're really wondering is what your own desires and needs are, but have no idea at all. You need to refine your needs first.

You were advised to use the search function to save everyone the trouble of answering your posts. The search function is on this forum. Use it to do general inquiries about boats, cruising, or any other topic. There's a lot of great information already discussed, and you can access it without wasting everyone's time.

I sincerely hope you take the advice offered. It's basic forum etiquette. If you choose not to follow it, a lot of people will put you on their "ignore" list, or simply skip any post with your name attached.
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Old 19-12-2015, 09:56   #34
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Are you sure? Mine is 29' and she does well enough
The Pardeys have an 28' boat, no engine, and no way are your plans "bigger" then what they're doing / have done.

I'm assuming you're aware considering in one of your (many ) other topics you posted you made an offer on a 32' boat. I think. Haha, I'm confused, too many topics still going
I have made two offers, both on a Pearson 323, one an 82 i think, and the other a 78, the year that is.

The newer at the same price of the older...and i am wondering; why?

Now i need to research what's the difference between an 82 and a 78 Pearson 323... Do you have any info?

I think i will start a thread on that topic since i was not able to find any threads on that topic with good comparison information
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Old 19-12-2015, 10:04   #35
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

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Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces View Post
It's OK to ask about a boat you're seriously interested in. It's better to use the search function first, as much of the information you're asking about has already been discussed.

Over the past two days, you've inquired about a Catalina 30, a Catalina 35, a Pearson 323, and an Island Packet 38. Those boats aren't comparable in terms of price, so one of your basic requirements isn't nailed down enough to provide advice. What's your price range? That's going to rule out some of those boats before you even start.

Now that's just plain rude. It's rude because people here will take some time and offer opinions on those boats, but you're wasting their time if what you're really wondering is what your own desires and needs are, but have no idea at all. You need to refine your needs first.

You were advised to use the search function to save everyone the trouble of answering your posts. The search function is on this forum. Use it to do general inquiries about boats, cruising, or any other topic. There's a lot of great information already discussed, and you can access it without wasting everyone's time.

I sincerely hope you take the advice offered. It's basic forum etiquette. If you choose not to follow it, a lot of people will put you on their "ignore" list, or simply skip any post with your name attached.
I just know what i am looking for. I know that i do not like to feel like a sardine in a can. I want to be comfortable if i am permanently going to liveaboard. Everything i have read says that a 30 foot sailboat is not going to make me happy.

While it is a good sailboat, it is not a natural blue water sailboat either. Sure, it can survive blue water but like others have said, you have to be on top of your game for that, because of the size.

Also i know that i am looking for a shallow drafter.
Thick hull
Good engine with adequate horsepower - even though i hear a lot of complaints about the Penta Volvo engine and that concerns me because most of the 323 came with the Volvo 3 cilinders?
Spacious
with a head and shower and not a port a potty
a galley
hot cold water
auto pilot and mechanical, easier to fix?
Tankage
VHF
a furling sail
Good ground tackle
and this is just a few

Of course, there is always the nay sayers that said that i can not get a sailboat with all that i want for $15k, but i already had a seller contact me with an offer of 15k for a Columbia with a bunch of stuff and with a dinghy and a outboard motor included. But i have not seen the sailboat just pictures.

I am confused when it comes to all the demands of this forum.

Don't post this, don't post that, too many topics, etc. etc. etc.
Even called rude? Told to use google and so on.

I am here to ask questions. While i am sure that that there is some information already on the site about the sailboats that i am interested on, not all information here addresses my concerns.

Sure someone might ask about the same sailboat that i am interested on, but not everyone asks their questions the same and not all answers here about a particular sailboat touch on all the things that i am interested.

Too many threads? This is a "forum" right? I ask in each thread a particular questions about a particular sailboat. I do not see the harm in doing it like that. I then can go back to each particular thread and re-read the information when i need a refresh on that info on that particular sailboat.

Why would i want to ask a million questions about 5 different sailboats in one thread? It would make it confusing.

A forum is a place to ask questions and to have discussions and read answers. I have gone over a lot of info here and there are many questions unanswered after i have gone through a million threads and posts here.

While i am not aware of the statistics i am sure everyday more people join the forum, new people, with new insights, new answers, new perspectives and angles. Sure, there is already information here about the same topic, but not all information is the same and someone always haves a different perspective, view, angle, understanding, or an aha answer that it may not be answered in the old posts.

And also, how come i do not see more people supporting the website monetarily? $15/mo is a pittance and sets a good example and it supports a great website with fantastic resources and people to connect with.

Finally my friend, i have decided that a Catalina 30 is definitely not the sailboat for me. I am not interested in selling and buying a second sailboat. The sailboat that i buy now will probably stay with me until the end.

Thank you for all of your expertise and it is because of this website and the people here like you and others who have made it possible for me and in less than a month to come to terms with a lot of information that i didn't have before or knew about. I thank you all, even if you get annoyed by me and for that please accept my most sincere apologies to you and to all!

Seasons greetings to all!
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Old 19-12-2015, 10:39   #36
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptRican View Post
I have made two offers, both on a Pearson 323, one an 82 i think, and the other a 78, the year that is.

The newer at the same price of the older...and i am wondering; why?

Now i need to research what's the difference between an 82 and a 78 Pearson 323... Do you have any info?

I think i will start a thread on that topic since i was not able to find any threads on that topic with good comparison information
The reason is CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. That's the way it works with older boats.

Sometimes a newer ('82) will not be in as good condition as an older ('78) one. It's NOT like cars. More like houses: location, location, location.

And your question about finding previous threads about comparisons may be looking in the wrong direction.

What you are looking for are topics like "How to Buy a Used Sailboat." This is where Google comes in, because it finds topics on this and other forums, and will also show you that there have been BOOKS written on the topic.

Rarely, if ever, actually, have I seen any threads that ask to compare a different year of the same boat. Why? 'Cuz the answer always will be: CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. That will determine the differences.

In addition, "replaceable" items, like electronics are rarely part of the comparison. Why? Again because each skipper's wants & needs vary. Some will be happy with few or basic electronics. A handheld GPS will get you around the world without radar or AIS. But they are must-haves for serious cruisers.

You are also asking about a "first boat, coastal cruiser and bluewater boat."

This is the part we all are having trouble with and trouble with you about. Why? Because it's like asking: "I'm buying my first car, I don't have a driver license yet, but I want a stick shift automatic, with 74 MPG, but it has to go from 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, have a short wheelbase but seat nine."

Ain't gonna happen.

Look, we ALL started out not know sh*t from shinola about sailing. None of us were born sailors.

But we all either got thrown into the deep water and learned to swim, or read and/or took lessons and worked our way up the ladder. And many of us did it without the internet.

Etiquette? May I subtly suggest you go back and read what you've recently posted? First, you posted your recent "rant" twice. #32 & #35. Bad manners. Second, reread it and then go back a reread what a few of us have been saying to you. Then take a deep breath. Ask yourself the question: "Gee guy, why are these people saying these things about me?" The reason is you sound like you're thrashing around, which is perfectly fine to do AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR PROGRESS.

But please remember, sailing is a PROCESS. It takes TIME. There are no instant answers. There are some comparisons that are beyond "comparing two boats of the same size or same manufacturer of different years."

We all appreciate your coming here and asking. Please keep doing so. But also please recognize that it is rarely helpful for the questioner to start berating the respondents who have been patiently trying to explain to him that he should slow down and do some more homework and research which is not simply equivalent to asking even more questions!!! But take the time to do some more reading on your own along the lines of what we've been explaining to you, and maybe buy a few books about buying sailboats or Google the topic and read up. Books are cheap, you don't need to buy new.

Good luck, hope this helps explain some more to you about a lot of things.
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Old 19-12-2015, 10:50   #37
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
The reason is CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. That's the way it works with older boats.

Sometimes a newer ('82) will not be in as good condition as an older ('78) one. It's NOT like cars. More like houses: location, location, location.

And your question about finding previous threads about comparisons may be looking in the wrong direction.

What you are looking for are topics like "How to Buy a Used Sailboat." This is where Google comes in, because it finds topics on this and other forums, and will also show you that there have been BOOKS written on the topic.

Rarely, if ever, actually, have I seen any threads that ask to compare a different year of the same boat. Why? 'Cuz the answer always will be: CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. That will determine the differences.

In addition, "replaceable" items, like electronics are rarely part of the comparison. Why? Again because each skipper's wants & needs vary. Some will be happy with few or basic electronics. A handheld GPS will get you around the world without radar or AIS. But they are must-haves for serious cruisers.

You are also asking about a "first boat, coastal cruiser and bluewater boat."

This is the part we all are having trouble with and trouble with you about. Why? Because it's like asking: "I'm buying my first car, I don't have a driver license yet, but I want a stick shift automatic, with 74 MPG, but it has to go from 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, have a short wheelbase but seat nine."

Ain't gonna happen.

Look, we ALL started out not know sh*t from shinola about sailing. None of us were born sailors.

But we all either got thrown into the deep water and learned to swim, or read and/or took lessons and worked our way up the ladder. And many of us did it without the internet.

Etiquette? May I subtly suggest you go back and read what you've recently posted? First, you posted your recent "rant" twice. #32 & #35. Bad manners. Second, reread it and then go back a reread what a few of us have been saying to you. Then take a deep breath. Ask yourself the question: "Gee guy, why are these people saying these things about me?" The reason is you sound like you're thrashing around, which is perfectly fine to do AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR PROGRESS.

But please remember, sailing is a PROCESS. It takes TIME. There are no instant answers. There are some comparisons that are beyond "comparing two boats of the same size or same manufacturer of different years."

We all appreciate your coming here and asking. Please keep doing so. But also please recognize that it is rarely helpful for the questioner to start berating the respondents who have been patiently trying to explain to him that he should slow down and do some more homework and research which is not simply equivalent to asking even more questions!!! But take the time to do some more reading on your own along the lines of what we've been explaining to you, and maybe buy a few books about buying sailboats or Google the topic and read up. Books are cheap, you don't need to buy new.

Good luck, hope this helps explain some more to you about a lot of things.
Advice well taken! and i do understand what you are saying and yes i am all over the place and i must apologize. Thank you for taking the time to be kind and patient with me. I am nervous, i am anxious, and i am scared but excited.

I am waiting for several books...

Again thank you.
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Old 19-12-2015, 11:20   #38
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

You're welcome.

When you go look at boats, use this:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips | SailboatOwners.com Forums
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Old 19-12-2015, 11:41   #39
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

If you really think you want to do this, you are missing the most important factor: you need to learn how to sail and spend some time sailing before you can make an educated purchase. For all you know right now you could hate sailing. You could prefer cats to monos. An aft head may be really important to you. A masthead rig might be the only thing you would consider, you may loathe travelers in the cockpit, etc.

It's fun to window shop and compare boats by the numbers, but it doesn't ultimately tell you much about whether a boat is right for you.

People certainly do buy boats and then learn to sail them, but it is risky. If you aren't rolling in money the way to keep yourself from making a big financial mistake is to learn first and crawl around on other people's boats. Then your boat selection is knowledge based rather than "by the numbers."

Take a vacation in Florida and do the ASA courses in a liveaboard situation. By the end you will at least know if you even like sailing.
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Old 19-12-2015, 11:54   #40
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

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Originally Posted by vjm View Post
If you really think you want to do this, you are missing the most important factor: you need to learn how to sail and spend some time sailing before you can make an educated purchase. For all you know right now you could hate sailing. You could prefer cats to monos. An aft head may be really important to you. A masthead rig might be the only thing you would consider, you may loathe travelers in the cockpit, etc.

It's fun to window shop and compare boats by the numbers, but it doesn't ultimately tell you much about whether a boat is right for you.

People certainly do buy boats and then learn to sail them, but it is risky. If you aren't rolling in money the way to keep yourself from making a big financial mistake is to learn first and crawl around on other people's boats. Then your boat selection is knowledge based rather than "by the numbers."

Take a vacation in Florida and do the ASA courses in a liveaboard situation. By the end you will at least know if you even like sailing.
I agree and i have considered doing that too, going to Florida for a few weeks to test boats and maybe even taking the lessons from the ASA there.

Also, it is one of the reasons why i am going with a budget of 15k and not 100k. But my approach by the numbers and by precedent at least ensures that i am getting a boat that is a solid sailer at that price.

I know that i would like sailing because i have been in the water all of my life. I love to travel on ferries when the weather is rough and sit right in front of the cockpit and ride the bow like a roller coaster.

Right now i am just looking and assessing and learning...thanks for your input. I do need to start looking at different sailboats.
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Old 31-12-2015, 08:56   #41
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Just some encouragement - though you are of course revisiting stuff that is old hat to everyone here and can be found by looking at other threads, I personally am not offended by that.

Other posters are right about the general rules, but I think a bit stuffy about etiquette - my personal attitude is, if some thread it boring I just blow it off, and usually don't bother to say anything.

If it was my job to respond to the forum and had to prove to my boss I had been highly efficient about only reading new stuff, and always making a new never previously covered post of my own, I'd feel more anger and "leave me alone and let me do my job" - but no one forces me on here, so I just blow it off if it's not my thing.

Having said all that, I will say, your questions are kind of too general to answer - but I will try to put in a helpful hint to the boat search

Generally, there are several well known production boats from the 70s into the 80s with large cabins, plenty of room, you don't feel like you are living in a hole in the ground - and by the way, not to be morbid but I know of a LOT of liveabords, single guys, who committed suicide - it's not fore everyone, please keep that in mind - so you want room.

The roomy boats are generally not as seaworthy as many smaller boats - this is partly due to the fact a big structure is more fragile than a little one, but also due to the fact the production costs went into making it bigger, and the strength was not a priority - and partly due, seemingly, to ignorance or indifference - they could have done better for a few bucks but would not spend it, figuring the customer would not know any better.

Some of these old very roomy boats in fact have a pretty bad reputation by now and can be bought very cheap - but by now, many are not seaworthy for anything - and can not be fixed for any kind of decent price, even with tremendous "sweat equity" .

Since you are rejecting small boats - and rightly, because if it's going to be a hell for you to live in them, then I would say, particularly if you are going to visit Florida, to look at some compromise boats.

One example comes to mind, the Endeavour 37 "A" plan - not the "B" plan, that will make you feel claustrophobic - the "A" is open - feels very big for the size of the boat. They were built in Florida, were a good liveaboard, and therefore, after 40 years, human nature being as it is, there are dozens of them sitting around all over the state - but as the other poster said CONDITION is everything - and that size boat is big enough that you get into the "all the hardware is three times more than a 30 foot boat" thing.

Which, IMHO means, if the boat has missing or broken parts, and the seller says, "You can get that kind of thing for $1,000, not to worry" -ask him for the phone number of the person selling it for $1,000, and call to confirm it.

In general, IMHO, the boat for someone like you to buy is one that was neglected for many years but not greatly harmed by the neglect, and not stripped at all - plenty of old but still usable equipment.

Good luck and I for one want to know how it goes.
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Old 31-12-2015, 23:10   #42
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Quote:
Which, IMHO means, if the boat has missing or broken parts, and the seller says, "You can get that kind of thing for $1,000, not to worry" -ask him for the phone number of the person selling it for $1,000, and call to confirm it.
Even better: tell him to buy and install it and raise the price of the boat by the thousand bucks!

Jim
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Old 31-12-2015, 23:23   #43
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Re: Catalina 30, 1977 is this sailboat worth the money?

Two thoughts:
- Buy the boat you need today. If offshore work is 5-10yrs down the road, odds are you will be wasting money buying an offshore boat today.
- Take refitting costs with a huge grain of salt. I've seen plenty of people buy brand new "blue water" boats and then proceed to dump $50-100k into upgrades.

Reality it, you are likely to give out long before the boat does. That's not to say you should go out in a boat with problems, if you are doing the typical coconut run, if the boat is indecent condition, it should do fine.
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