Cat Ketch Pros and Cons

[thatboatguy]

The Freedom 40 is also a "Sail" hall of fame inductee.

Sail Hall of Fame

As for performance. Look how well the Freedom 44 has done in the Bermuda 1-2 offshore races from about 1983 to present.

For short handed sailing it's the bomb. And when you do have crew, the toughest work for them in tacking is that they have to take their cold beverage to the high side! heh heh

I've attached a PDF file describing sail handling of a cat ketch written by Garry Hoyt himself.

Incidentally, there are still some of the early Freedom 40s with aluminum spars out there. Ours is hull number 6. At some point her wishbones and wraparound sails were replaced with Strong Track full baton Quantum sails and Isomat booms.

George

[mrohr]

HI all, i was interested in the herreshoff 31 cat ketch enough to invest $10 in the review .that article saved me from many potential problems,i still like the design, but there were many issues with execution.Don't know about the others tho.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm curious as to the advantages/disadvantages of the wishbones vs conventional booms on these cat ketches.

[thatboatguy]

Good discussion here.

Wiki here

I suppose the biggest advantage of wishbone booms is the ability to sheet and vang from a single point using a single line. For us the advantage of the Isomat booms is the jiffy reefing.

Also a quick correction, our Freedom 40 is hull 7, not 6.

George

[Blue Stocking]

George,

That light grey one in the Bermuda 1-2 has often anchored in the bay in front of my house. A really nice boat.

[DaveOnCudjoe]

My Sea Pearl is an unstayed cat ketch. Wonderful to sail, I also carry a mizzen stay sail to add area and keep the CE low. She beats powerfully tacking in 100degrees. My thought is that there are 2 issues here, cat ketch sail plan and unstayed rigs. I would like to play with a stayed cat ketch or cat schooner. I've never heard of a cat schooner but the idea intrigues me as the fore sail might produce a slot for the main to improve up wind performance. Graham Byrnes (sp)of B&B yacht designs is very knowledgable on the cat ketch rig. Dave

[thatboatguy]

The Freedom 39 comes in a Cat Schooner rig.

George

[stark]

Originally Posted by mrohr

HI all, i was interested in the herreshoff 31 cat ketch enough to invest $10 in the review .that article saved me from many potential problems,i still like the design, but there were many issues with execution.Don't know about the others tho.

Mrohr, I am interested in what that article has to say. Do you mind sharing a little insight?

Also, it seems that owners of cat ketch boats are true believers in the design. However, as I've been looking around at these boats for sale, I've noticed 2 things:
1, they sell for a lot less than a more conventional rig of similar size and condition. and 2, there are hardly any of them for sale that were built after the 80's (the decade of totally awesome music).

So if they are such a great design, why aren't there more of them around?

[dweller]

Originally Posted by mrohr

HI all, i was interested in the herreshoff 31 cat ketch enough to invest $10 in the review .that article saved me from many potential problems,i still like the design, but there were many issues with execution.Don't know about the others tho.

Did you buy the Herreshoff 31 cat ketch? What were the issues you mentioned. Do you have the article you mentioned?

Thanks

[Ronald Rogala]

Here is an interesting comment of another who has sailed a cat ketch:

captjcook
My long time best friend has a 1980 freedom forty...not the "piratety looking one"..I would doubt he has less than 40,000 sea miles, he bought it new. I have sailed and cruised many months on this boat, and along side for many more. Erasmus draws 4-1/2 feet board up and around seven down. It is by far the easiest sailing boat (almost lazy if you ask me) I have ever been on, you just turn the wheel to tack. It is extremely sea kindly and although Siren can cut inside of him upwind he walks the dog on me downwind. Cat Ketch Is Cat rig meaning the main mast is right there at the bow of the boat. I would not hesitate for one second to take his boat around the world...I would not say that about a catamaran for myself. I am not bashing catamarans, I have sailed them, I like them, fast, stable. Just some places I would not go with one.

†***************

[Don C L]

I have not sailed on one, I am only a wannabe cat ketch sailor but we had one (Freedom 40) for sale nearby recently and I went over to have a look. After doing a little research I found that there was some complaining about the sails that were wrapped around the mast (vs on a track.) It was a little hard to bring the sails down. Yes I have heard about the pointing ability, but keep in mind that it is not just how high you can point but how fast you are going at that heading. Considering the advantages to the Cat Ketch rig, I'd go tell 'em you want to take it for a spin! Then have a friend in a similar sloop rig tag along and see who wins. My only concern or question was, can we see some unstayed cats or cat ketches with a little lower center of gravity? What's wrong with a little more keel, and more lead, down a little lower?

[strongmonty]

I'm wondering if there are any owners of a Tanton 43 or 45 Cat Ketch who have had a stability curve put together. It would be SOOO appreciated! I am putting feelers out all over for this!

And "Don C L": I will be surprised if the center of gravity of a Tanton Cat Ketch is not quite low in the boat. My calculations give the 43' a Ballast to Displacement ratio of .4536 which is pretty high. True, the keel is not that deep but let's not forget that the rig is approx 1/3 the weight of a traditional rig.

Thank you,
Nathaniel&Nina

[Panope]

Is it possible to heave to with the cat ketch rig?

Steve

[strongmonty]

It is possible in any rig. Each rig and hull shape has its own unique way to heave to. Using a para-anchor attached to a swivel on a pennant line with a guy, you should be able to always get the bow pointed in the correct direction. Read the book Storm Tactics by Lin & Larry Pardey. The only way to be sure that you have it down in your particular boat is to get out there and practice!

When we finally get our cat ketch (only 2 more years!!!), I am considering having the mast refitted to add a set of removable stays on the mainmast while the main used as a stormsail while heaving to. In normal conditions you would be able to secure these stays at the base of the mast so they are not in the way. I've also played with the idea of adding a dedicated 2nd track and trysail, instead of putting that wear on the main. These "heave-to stays" may be completely unnecessary but it will definitely be something that I will discuss deeply with my carbon fiber mast expert when the time comes.

If she can't stand up to the rough, why ride her at all?

[Rnslrock]

I too am on the market for a blue water boat, and in my research determined a ketch rig is safest, for single-handed sailing. My folks think catamarans are the way to go. I just can’t conceive of sailing a boat that cannot steer a windward course.

The ketch rig makes sense because, as one poster put it, first up with the mizzen, last down with the mizzen. All from the safety of the cockpit. My only thought with the cat ketch is heaving to. Without a jib, it’s not possible. What to do to stay fast in deep water?