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Old 22-08-2017, 03:24   #1
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Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Hi,

I have been looking at this boat for a wile. It caught my eye years ago, was sold but is now for sale once more for a fraction of the price. Here is a description:

This interesting aluminium yacht was built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'. George Rehnert had owned a Freedom 40 then subsequently designed his own alloy yacht which was built using the most suitable aluminium by professional alloy boat builders in Bremen, Germany.

Mast/Rigging:
The 14m carbon fibre masts were purchased from 'Freedom Yachts' with the owner's own designed rotating mast bases. The wishbone boom arrangement further improves the ease of handling.

The plans are in German, but it looks like it has 5 ton of lead, a 9.6m water line, and a swing keel.

My question is not if this boat is worth buying, but more about her potential abilities. I have not sailed a cat ketch, or a swing keel. The price is great, I like the look of her, I just what to know if she is stable, able to sail to windward at all, and what her capsize potential is compared to your everyday classic modified fin keel, fibreglass, 45% Bal./Disp ratio yacht I am used to.

Any thoughts?

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Old 22-08-2017, 08:19   #2
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

You are likely referring to this boat:
Rehnert Cat Ketch for sale in Langkawi-Malaysia

What is it about an amateur-designed boat that you find most attractive, besides the price?
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:10   #3
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Hi all, this is more of a technical question for the armchair Naval Architect out there.

This boat is based on the freedom 40, but is not a freedom 40, I just wondering if it is as good, worse or better than a freedom 40.

The criteria being abilities at various points of sail; sea kindliness; and ability to stay floating should conditions get out of hand or she gets knocked down in an escalating series of errors and bad luck.

It was built by a German, and is in Langkawi-- my assumption is it was precisely engineered and fabricated; I also assume the design is not a total death trap as she made it across the Atlantic and the pacific-- You might also assume the owner-builder was not that salty being from a country with less than 1300 miles of coast line.

Of course I'm not gunna buy a boat now matter what the price based on assumptions!
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:39   #4
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

A sharp looker in my book, similar in design to the cat ketches that Freedom built for a few years, which held appeal for simplicity and short-handed sailing. Tacking is done by simply sailing through the wind. The design is beamy, with a long waterline for enhanced hull speed. Like the Nonsuch line of wishbone-boomed cat boats, I would expect this design to shine off the wind, and point decently but not as well as a sloop. I've read that carbon fiber masts need to be checked very carefully for signs of stress fractures by the surveyor. Why not have her surveyed and take her for a sea trial?
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Old 23-08-2017, 10:18   #5
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Having owned a cat-ketch with rotating masts I can say the system is problematic. While reefing by rotating the masts is a neat concept the more force there is on the mast due to wind the more they tend to bind making reefing difficult when you most need it. I think just pulling the sail up with a track or sleeving the sail combined with the lazyjack system that Nonsuch uses is the way to go. Otherwise I think it's a great rig.
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Old 23-08-2017, 12:33   #6
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

If the pics are spot on it would be a steal at that price.
8000 hours on great engine... not sure.
Have a survey done for sure on hull plating etc...
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Old 23-08-2017, 12:36   #7
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Looks like a great live aboard to me. Certainly worth checking out if that's what you are looking for.
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Old 23-08-2017, 14:37   #8
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Quote:
Originally Posted by chphotographic View Post
... I just what to know if she is stable, able to sail to windward at all, and what her capsize potential is compared to your everyday classic modified fin keel, fibreglass, 45% Bal./Disp ratio yacht I am used to...
Hard to say stability-wise without comparing lines plan of this (hard chine) design directly with, say, Freedom 40. Relatively high freeboard and cabin suggests her AVS will be high (a good thing ). There is a fellow (designer/naval architect) on Boat Design Forum who will calculate AVS and whether a design meets Cat A (Offshore) stability but that could take some time and effort. Personally I like the look of her but without a lines plan...

I've heard the easiest way to reef this type of ketch is to fully drop one sail.
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Old 24-08-2017, 16:00   #9
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Have the masts checked. It was rescued last year due to cracked lead mast. It's also going to need to new sails and some other equipment that is now no longer on the boat. The dodger also needs finishing, removing or replacing.

https://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket...-sailing-yacht
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Old 24-08-2017, 16:35   #10
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Cheers Mate! That is great info, mast is worth many time more than the boat....... I feel for the owner I think that boat is unsellable.....
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:08   #11
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

This yacht still available, seems like quite a good price. Apparently the masts are ok, just in need of new sails. Is it too special, with the cat ketch and alu hull?
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Old 26-03-2018, 03:18   #12
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

I live in the Philippines and have been looking at this 1988 Rehnert Cat Ketch for about a year and spoken to the broker and the boat just seems overpriced to me. With the boat being located at langkawi Island you'll need confidence in the sails and engine to even move the boat or leave to have extensive repairs in Phuket or SSR boatyard and this boat has neither. The last owner was trying to get it up to Phuket for new sails and repairs from what I heard when the old engine broke, and as described her his sails tore and a boom broke. The engine is a great little Sabb workhorse but with 8k hours and no readily available parts anywhere how could anyone consider doing any off grid sailing in SEA with an engine like that. When you leave traditional boating areas in Asia there isn't Sea Tow . What I see is a boat that needs a $15k engine replacement and about $10k in new sails to include a new spair since both sails are mains. This wouldn't even include all the other things that come from buying a used boat that you could spend money on. I'm really close to flying over to langkawi and taking a look at her but at $25k or even $15k she would still require at least $25k in updating not to include repairs to just get her ready to even leave the island. Anyone know this boat or have insight on her state of repair? Any insight or opinions on this boat would be much appreciated.
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Old 26-03-2018, 07:23   #13
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

I like the boat. It will cost you months of repair and $ 50K.
Get a Freedom 44 for$60K.

However, I understand that you are closer to that boat than the East coast of the USA.
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Old 26-03-2018, 09:37   #14
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Very true on the cost and time spent. If the boat is still for sale later this year I'll go over and look at it and see what she looks like and see if it's dropped in price which would make buying the boat more feasible. That's of course if the only couple of issues with it are the engine and sails.
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Old 26-03-2018, 10:08   #15
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Re: Cat ketch built along the lines of the Garry Hoyt 'Freedom 40'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
I like the boat. It will cost you months of repair and $ 50K.
Get a Freedom 44 for$60K.

However, I understand that you are closer to that boat than the East coast of the USA.
You mean $50K total? New engine and sails ++ $25K ?
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