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Old 03-05-2016, 00:00   #46
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Hi Hoppy... glad you are getting your cruising done in the area now. I agree the future doesn't look to promising on the European continent. The problem as I see it is that decisions are being made by unelected appointed folks who have no accountability for their decisions except their own conscience. My good friend who is a US Military officer attached to NATO in Brussels sees storm clouds on the horizon. As he has lived in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Lebenon, he has seen this situation deteriorate and unfold quickly before. I trust his judgement implicitly and am surprised he has not moved his family stateside before this. Although they are on a 12 hour warning to leave Belgium if the balloon goes up.
I wish you and yours a relaxing and trouble free cruise through what I consider one of the most beautiful and friendly cruising area in the world. Cheers, Phil
I'm not worried about the med cruising grounds other than a few locations where the crossings happen and there I will just be extra cautious and plan my routes differently.

If it wasn't for the fact that 24+ hours flying and travelling time is just way too much for workers annual vacations plus the likelihood that cruising time will be lost visiting the in-laws, then I'd consider keeping my boat in Greece when I'm back in Aus.

The med will remain a great destination for cruisers.

I'm fed up with the clueless elected muppets who govern Sweden (lived there 18 years, posting from there over winter). Swedes think they can just bring in tens of thousands of refugees, give them accomodation and money and expect that the refugees will be happy to just sit around enjoying the northern paradise whilst the Swedes themselves bask in the glory of being the worlds most superior humanitarians. Swedes think that the adult generation of refugees will be grateful for the job as a cleaner, because being a cleaner in paradise is better than being a doctor in a dirty dangerous sh!thole. Swedes definition of integration is educating the children of refugees and giving them hope of a more normal life.

The average Swedish "we are superior and are happy to pay high taxes to maintain that feeling" have no idea about the problems the poor attempts of integration cause and are unwilling to discuss the immigration topic at any level. Head in sand, world is perfect.

I pissed myself laughing when the government started panicking when the numbers arriving last year was getting close to 200k. I'm also pissed off they closed their borders, after all soft weak willed Sweden has been a popular draw card encouraging people to make the dangerous crossings. A bit like sending people an invite to a party and then not letting them in the door.

Germany it seems is just as bad. I used to like Merkel, I liked how she played hard with Greece but now I realise she's as stupid as the Swedish PM's.

The med will remain a great place for retired Swedes and Germans to watch from a distance their societies change beyond recognition.
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Old 03-05-2016, 00:09   #47
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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My good friend who is a US Military officer attached to NATO in Brussels sees storm clouds on the horizon. As he has lived in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Lebenon, he has seen this situation deteriorate and unfold quickly before. I trust his judgement implicitly and am surprised he has not moved his family stateside before this. Although they are on a 12 hour warning to leave Belgium if the balloon goes up.
Yes, there are storm clouds, but zero reason to move the family home and no need for the 12 hour evacuation plan other than to cover a General's arse.

This is 2016, not 1938

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Old 03-05-2016, 02:46   #48
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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So are the Zero hours contracts used by McDonalds, Starbucks and the other wankers.. and they get away with it.
You can argue it's an unfair labor contract but hardly a scam. It's a part time job with no guarantee of hours.

But that's not the point, is there some place I can get a job paying 1euro/hr and the officials will happily assign me residency based on it?

The only reference I found online is a German welfare program but somehow I can't see them giving me residency based on asking to be part of a welfare program. Also, if I'm expected to actually show up at an office 40hrs/wk, it kind of undercuts the whole idea of cruising.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:16   #49
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Almost total and complete second hand B.S. Based on my first hand observations.

The US needs to to get its own house in order. I'm sure there are small isolated pockets of refugees in some EU cities, but nearly every major US city has areas where it's not wise to go.
This.

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Yes, there are storm clouds, but zero reason to move the family home and no need for the 12 hour evacuation plan other than to cover a General's arse.

This is 2016, not 1938

And this
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:15   #50
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pirate Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
You can argue it's an unfair labor contract but hardly a scam. It's a part time job with no guarantee of hours.

But that's not the point, is there some place I can get a job paying 1euro/hr and the officials will happily assign me residency based on it?

The only reference I found online is a German welfare program but somehow I can't see them giving me residency based on asking to be part of a welfare program. Also, if I'm expected to actually show up at an office 40hrs/wk, it kind of undercuts the whole idea of cruising.
Actually residency is not that difficult. just prove you can support yourself (plenty of funds in bank account) and Spain for example will welcome you with open arms.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:30   #51
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Actually residency is not that difficult. just prove you can support yourself (plenty of funds in bank account) and Spain for example will welcome you with open arms.
Sure but that's a far cry from 1 euro/hr job which I believe was intended as a work around for someone who doesn't have a 6 figure bank account. Also, from my understanding, there is usually a requirement to get housing and I haven't seen much in the way of cruisers saying that Spain accepts you in with your boat as your home when you ask for residency.

Of course if you have a 6 figure bank account, is Spain welcoming you with open arms or are they just reaching around your body to get at your wallet?
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Old 03-05-2016, 15:21   #52
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

I agree that residency is not hard; if you buy a house for more than 257k euro in Greece, you can apply for permanent residency. You can also apply for non permanent residency if you can show you have the means to live. BUT you must have health insurance before you apply (v expensive), your permit might not necessarily be accepted in other EU countries, at least not straight away, you might run into VAT issues if your boat carries a foreign flag.
But remember that foreign dollars are export wealth and government like that. All the rules are to stop people exploiting the government's social services without paying taxes.
We have found that, apart from the odd (and I mean odd) bureaucrat, the system is welcoming and happy to have you cruising their waters.
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Old 03-05-2016, 17:17   #53
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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That is the VAT issue. A non-VAT paid boat may only remain in the EU for 18 months before having to leave. The departure need only be for a few hours, but sufficient to obtain proof the boat was out of the EU, in order to reset the 18-month VAT clock.

You say you're thinking of sailing the Med for two or three seasons before leaving. By seasons do you mean the summer season, in which case you can sail for three months, return to N. America for the winter, and go back again next summer, which is essentially what we do. Or, do you mean two or three years of continuous sailing before leaving, in which case spending time out of Schengen will be necessary for you.
Hello, Thanks for the information. I think that the first 2 seasons will only be for 2-3 months. The third season could be longer than that. I was planning to flag the vessel in the US. Would proof that the VAT was paid allow the vessel to remain in the EU for those three seasons? Also, I have never purchased a boat outside of the US or Canada, are there any unusual fees involved to be aware of? Best, James
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Old 03-05-2016, 17:28   #54
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Originally Posted by Lokiyawl View Post
Hello, Thanks for the information. I think that the first 2 seasons will only be for 2-3 months. The third season could be longer than that. I was planning to flag the vessel in the US. Would proof that the VAT was paid allow the vessel to remain in the EU for those three seasons? Also, I have never purchased a boat outside of the US or Canada, are there any unusual fees involved to be aware of? Best, James
If the VAT has not been paid on a vessel you end up buying, there are legal ways to keep your boat in the EU for several years without needing to exit the EU every 18 months. Several countries, including Spain and Italy only count the time the boat is in use. When you're away from the boat, a customs agent places the boat in a customs bond, and that time spent in bond does not count towards the 18 month limit.

Not all countries offer this service, and the rules and regulations vary greatly in other EU countries.

It's really that simple. Or complex.
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Old 03-05-2016, 17:36   #55
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
If the VAT has not been paid on a vessel you end up buying, there are legal ways to keep your boat in the EU for several years without needing to exit the EU every 18 months. Several countries, including Spain and Italy only count the time the boat is in use. When you're away from the boat, a customs agent places the boat in a customs bond, and that time spent in bond does not count towards the 18 month limit.

Not all countries offer this service, and the rules and regulations vary greatly in other EU countries.

It's really that simple. Or complex.
The VAT has been paid on this boat. So I would only need to have proof of that payment to keep the boat itself in the EU for as long as I wanted? I will be buying the boat located in Italy soon via a reputable broker. Are there any extra costs not normally incurred from purchasing a vessel in the US for example? Thanks, James
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Old 03-05-2016, 17:46   #56
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Originally Posted by Lokiyawl View Post
The VAT has been paid on this boat. So I would only need to have proof of that payment to keep the boat itself in the EU for as long as I wanted? I will be buying the boat located in Italy soon via a reputable broker. Are there any extra costs not normally incurred from purchasing a vessel in the US for example? Thanks, James
I'd ask your broker. We purchased our boat outside the EU.

Please let us know where you'll be in Italy, it's always fun to meet up with fellow Canadians and folks from the CF forum. We'll be in Sardina, Naples, Sicily, Greece and Montenegro.
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Old 03-05-2016, 18:14   #57
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Re: Canadian citizen, VAT paid vessel and cruising

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Originally Posted by Lokiyawl View Post
The VAT has been paid on this boat. So I would only need to have proof of that payment to keep the boat itself in the EU for as long as I wanted? I will be buying the boat located in Italy soon via a reputable broker. Are there any extra costs not normally incurred from purchasing a vessel in the US for example? Thanks, James
Correct. I'm not familiar with cost incurred purchasing a vessel in the US, but purchasing one in Spain means the purchase agreement plus any survey you request, insurance & registration costs. Nothing unforeseen I can think of. We've done it twice.

The two big "got ya" issues for us in the Med are VAT & Schengen. If you receive documentation showing the VAT was paid at some point on your boat--that's gold. Keep it safe! As far as Schengen is concerned, Kenomac has one way that has worked for him. Your time frame will allow you to learn as you go and decide how to proceed when the time comes.

It's a fantastic place to sail. Fair winds!
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