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Old 01-09-2011, 12:59   #61
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

I guess the benefit of looking this fall is that any hull blisters would be more noticeable and would have no time (the fall/winter/spring) to dry out and disappear.

Perhaps there are ways around that?


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Old 01-09-2011, 13:05   #62
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I may be wrong here, but isn't the Douglas 32 also known as the Hullmaster 31? Something to keep in mind, anyway. They are solid boats for the Lakes, to be sure.
Yeah,with a redesigned reversed transome...I think the Hullmaster was a kit boat.?
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Old 01-09-2011, 14:14   #63
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Well, since you asked for honest feedback, I can tell you why brokers don't want to waste a lot of time on you: you don't really know what you want. In the scope of a week you've gone from being interested in a C&C 39 to a Whitby 42. Those boats aren't even related to each other. Honestly, they are designed for a completely different market, with completely different rigs and completely different hull/keel configurations. Very few people interested in a boat like a C&C would also want to look at a Whitby. It's kinda like saying you can't decide between a Porsche roadster or a Chrysler minivan.

Figure out what you want to do with a boat first. Are you interested in club racing? If not, stop looking at racer/cruisers. Are you interested in offshore passages? If not....
Actually I would be interested in both - just for very different reasons, obviously a minivan is the sensible choice (my first thought was how much boat gear I could fit in )........the Porsche? not really my thing (i'd love a Ferrari though, but can't afford to keep one - nor want to suck up the depreciation), but at the right price the Porsche could be a temptation to purchase even for me. Probably sell it in a year or 2 wondering why I bothered buying (whereas the Minivan would be a run till it drops vehicle).

If a s/h car dealer has both on the forecourt why would he really care which one the punter chose? or the reasons? (whether the dealer thinks it is a good decision is immaterial, if after some guidance the Punter wants to go in there own direction - then so be it). To my eyes Boat Broker listings are the same. Obviously a $25k boat gets the sales effort that merits, whilst a $100k potential punter might get some coffee But all worth a least 5 minutes and being able to see the boat, even if only initially for an hour. If someone then puts hand in own pocket for a lift out / survey then IMO they have moved well past tyre kicker. Obviously if a Broker has to employ Bouncers on the door to keep the massed punters (all holding buckets of cash) in line, then different rules can apply

.....all that is a long way of saying that if you tell a potential punter to "F#ck off" you won't make a sale (telling a punter he needs to defacto commit to buying the boat before even seeing it is the same as a "F#ck Off".........and that's even without asking for money ).
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Old 01-09-2011, 14:37   #64
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
If a s/h car dealer has both on the forecourt why would he really care which one the punter chose? or the reasons? (whether the dealer thinks it is a good decision is immaterial, if after some guidance the Punter wants to go in there own direction - then so be it). To my eyes Boat Broker listings are the same. Obviously a $25k boat gets the sales effort that merits, whilst a $100k potential punter might get some coffee But all worth a least 5 minutes and being able to see the boat, even if only initially for an hour. If someone then puts hand in own pocket for a lift out / survey then IMO they have moved well past tyre kicker. Obviously if a Broker has to employ Bouncers on the door to keep the massed punters (all holding buckets of cash) in line, then different rules can apply
I'm not defending brokers here. But I would suggest that it's a good idea to understand broker psychology if you hope to get one working for you.

A brokerage only makes money when boats got sold. This forces brokers to minimize the time they invest in shoppers who appear to be low prospects for ultimately making a purchase. If a potential boat buyer doesn't appear knowledgeable enough to know what type of boat he or she ultimately wants, the broker is not likely to want to invest significant time in the relationship. According to the OP, if I remember correctly, he can't even get this broker to return phone calls.

There is a clear message being sent at that point, and it goes something like this, "Come back once you at least know what you're looking for in a boat."
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Old 01-09-2011, 20:00   #65
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
Yeah,with a redesigned reversed transome...I think the Hullmaster was a kit boat.?
Could be. I associate them being the same by the fact that every skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32 has borne a strong resemblance to every other skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32.

Pretty much like this:

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:13   #66
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Could be. I associate them being the same by the fact that every skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32 has borne a strong resemblance to every other skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32.

Pretty much like this:

Well I guess that rules out a Douglas 32! I am too skinny, too tall and my wife won't let me grow a beard. I do have ratty hats though.

Seriously, I have been on a Douglas 32 (on the hard) and if I ever wrap my head around wacking my head from above, I would consider one.

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Old 02-09-2011, 10:54   #67
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

I have found, as with pet dogs and their owners, at some point skippers start to resemble their boats. After a certain age, there's not too many pinched sterns!
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:09   #68
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

I own a Whitby 42, real blue water cruising boat with large rear cabin and lots of head room. Many sell for very cheap, but the good ones, with recent upgrades should not sell under 100K. This somehow heavy looking design has the particularity of moving well in light winds. Whitby owners have their own website where you can find some for sale. Welcome to the Whitby Brewer Sailboats Site
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:13   #69
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

Knowing what one wants isn't a problem. A nice big bluewater cruiser that sails like a racer and costs a bit more than a night out out on the town. It's the compromising one must do to fit the dream into the real world that's the problem.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:14   #70
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

Hi guys and gals:

Yesterday I made an appointment to go down to BQYC next Friday. I fully intended to join for next year, but in discussions with the member, it became known that the city of Belleville berths only accommodate boats up to 35 feet, and BQYC only hauls and winter stores boats to same (other than a few grandfathered). I believe the former bankrupt Morch site will take larger boats, but I have not been able to determine its status. I certainly don’t want to be in the position of having my boat stuck on the hard like the poor bastards did in 2008 when Revenue Canada seized the place for taxes due.

Alchemy and others in private communications have also indicated that Quinte is rather shallow, and I just might want to establish myself elsewhere anyhow to be able to get to open water sooner.

So I emailed various other sites up and down from Belleville, inquiring about any availability of real berths for my hypothetical 42 foot boat. I heard back from Whitby, there are berths, but none are available at this time.

I also costed Whitby. For the berth, winter storage, haul in and out, step and unstep, pressure wash, cradle storage, and club membership came to approximately:

42 feet - $5300
32 feet - $4100

I knew boat ownership was miserable, but not that miserable. If one can stuff their boat dreams onto a trailer and haul it all home, they are much the better financially for it.

Yesterday’s investigations have made something clear to me. There are three cost drivers in boat ownership: the marina, maintenance, and the capital cost of the boat, likely in that order of importance. In other words, the net present value of each of the marina and maintenance costs is likely more than what you pay for the boat.

Collins Bay is likely the next closest marina, only about 10 km further than Belleville from home, but in a different direction. However, I would often be going there from Bancroft proper where my wife works, so the distance penalty in reality many days would be 70 or 80 km.

Happy sailing to whoever is heading out this weekend.

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Old 02-09-2011, 11:25   #71
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

Going further East you have a Do-it-yourself yard at Iroquois (Ontario) for storage only and good service and prices. My boat is stored there.
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Old 02-09-2011, 14:52   #72
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Could be. I associate them being the same by the fact that every skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32 has borne a strong resemblance to every other skipper I've seen on either a Hullmaster or a Douglas 32.

Pretty much like this:

Not me, Im pretty...not that this guy isnt mind ya! of course a womans opinion would serve better! DVC
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Old 02-09-2011, 15:02   #73
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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Originally Posted by Boulter View Post
Hi guys and gals:

Yesterday I made an appointment to go down to BQYC next Friday. I fully intended to join for next year, but in discussions with the member, it became known that the city of Belleville berths only accommodate boats up to 35 feet, and BQYC only hauls and winter stores boats to same (other than a few grandfathered). I believe the former bankrupt Morch site will take larger boats, but I have not been able to determine its status. I certainly don’t want to be in the position of having my boat stuck on the hard like the poor bastards did in 2008 when Revenue Canada seized the place for taxes due.

Alchemy and others in private communications have also indicated that Quinte is rather shallow, and I just might want to establish myself elsewhere anyhow to be able to get to open water sooner.

So I emailed various other sites up and down from Belleville, inquiring about any availability of real berths for my hypothetical 42 foot boat. I heard back from Whitby, there are berths, but none are available at this time.

I also costed Whitby. For the berth, winter storage, haul in and out, step and unstep, pressure wash, cradle storage, and club membership came to approximately:

42 feet - $5300
32 feet - $4100

I knew boat ownership was miserable, but not that miserable. If one can stuff their boat dreams onto a trailer and haul it all home, they are much the better financially for it.

Yesterday’s investigations have made something clear to me. There are three cost drivers in boat ownership: the marina, maintenance, and the capital cost of the boat, likely in that order of importance. In other words, the net present value of each of the marina and maintenance costs is likely more than what you pay for the boat.

Collins Bay is likely the next closest marina, only about 10 km further than Belleville from home, but in a different direction. However, I would often be going there from Bancroft proper where my wife works, so the distance penalty in reality many days would be 70 or 80 km.

Happy sailing to whoever is heading out this weekend.

Boulter
Owning a moderate to large boat is a lot like owning an airplane...you never can pay it off,ie ,insurance,annuals,medicals,hangers, and other various and sundrey costs...not to mention my mom always told me "never feel sorry for a man that ownes an airplane"..gee thanks mom!
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:42   #74
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

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I'm not defending brokers here. But I would suggest that it's a good idea to understand broker psychology if you hope to get one working for you......why would I want a Broker working for me? I want a Broker to be working for himself (i.e. simply doing his job).
Quote:
A brokerage only makes money when boats got sold. This forces brokers to minimize the time they invest in shoppers who appear to be low prospects for ultimately making a purchase. If a potential boat buyer doesn't appear knowledgeable enough to know what type of boat he or she ultimately wants, the broker is not likely to want to invest significant time in the relationship.
I understand that Brokers have to juggle prospects (and sometimes even the best intentioned will get that wrong - but that's just business).

Am not entirely sure that the Punter not appearing knowledgeable (nor actually being ) is a fundamental problem in selling him a boat. Indeed I can see certain advantages to that.......Appreciate that OP may well only merit a 5 minute chat and some advice (pointers to where OP could research more).......but nonetheless, I would have thought a few thousand in commission is worth a bit of effort. and if a boat is not worth selling, save everyone aggro and don't list it (or like a car dealer, list in the bargain basement / sold as seen - priced accordingly).

But if you have an item for sale (even on brokerage) the Punter not being able to inspect the goods before commiting themselves (contractuarly and / or financially) just seems bizarre


Quote:
According to the OP, if I remember correctly, he can't even get this broker to return phone calls.

There is a clear message being sent at that point, and it goes something like this, "Come back once you at least know what you're looking for in a boat."
yes, it is a very clear message. and the response should be equally clear when the time comes for OP to write the cheque..........the payee will be someone else
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Old 16-04-2015, 13:01   #75
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Re: Canadian-Built Bluewater Boats ? Headroom ?

I have enjoyed reading of anyone fulfilling a dream. My first broker was very understanding and ask questions? We looked at a couple of boats and he LISTENED to feedback ( I was contracting in Toronto and was from North Carolina, why did he give me the time of day?). He said he would call when he had something that we both thought would fit. 2 weeks later the phone rang, I should come over asap to see a boat that just came in. He would not publish the listing until I had a chance to see it. Drove down and gave him the deposit within an hour. He said something that stuck with me and after looking at many boats I believe it to be true. "You will know within 5 minutes of stepping on a boat if it is for you or not". I knew when it happened and I still had 2 minutes left. I do believe you have to go on a bunch to find the one you fall for. Best of luck in your search. I am 64 and searching for the last one. Currently at the top of my list is an Aloha 32, a size I hopefully can handle alone until I am 70 or health fails me. Sailing along the North Carolina coast and enjoying life...
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