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Old 07-06-2011, 19:02   #481
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Some people just can not let go of their "my dog is bigger than your dog". They need to believe others have a piece of crap boat so they can feel good about theirs. The only thing that I don't really get is why a snob would feel the need to "win" this discusion so much?
Sail whatever you like. But don't pretend that you somehow got more than you paid for.
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Old 07-06-2011, 19:05   #482
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Sail whatever you like. But don't pretend that you somehow got more than you paid for.
I'll tell the Purser to tell the Captain immediately.



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Old 07-06-2011, 19:07   #483
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Sail whatever you like. But don't pretend that you somehow got more than you paid for.

I wouldn't because why would I feel the need! But I don't think you will be happy until you get us all to say we got less than we paid for! Why is it so important to you?
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Old 07-06-2011, 19:12   #484
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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No, my boat required no further upgrades. Just maintenance. I had her out last week in 35 knots. No problem.

If you want to argue that your Chevrolet is as safe as my Mercedes, go right ahead. Heck, the Chevy can cruise just fine at 70 on the highway, has a radio, air conditioning and all the amenities. But it won't last nearly as long as a Mercedes, won't be worth nearly as much when you sell it and won't protect you nearly as well when someone crashes into you. Do millions of people get by with Chevrolets? Sure. But don't pretend that your nautical equivalent (Jeanneau, Bavaria, Beneteau,. Hunter, Catalina) is just as safe than a Morris or a Hallberg Rassy. It isn't. It was built to a price point and the design philosophy was BBSB--big beds sell boats-- not safety in force 8 or better.
Isn't your "Mercedes" made out of plywood??







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Old 07-06-2011, 19:14   #485
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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One place where the "car analogy" falls apart is with length.
That's something to remember when the dude with the Wagonwheel 27, who paid less for his boat than you paid for your autopilot, tells you that your Bene isn't blue-water capable because, unlike his boat, (which rarely exceeds four knots), your SA/D ratio isn't in the single digits.
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Old 07-06-2011, 19:26   #486
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Yep, my boat is made out of plywood and epoxy. Much stronger pound for pound than fiberglass. Custom built (for the previous owner) in the Pacific NW.

Actually, I'm in the process of selling my boat and searching for a larger boat. But you can be sure it won't be a Jeanneau, Bavaria or Beneteau.
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Old 07-06-2011, 19:58   #487
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Yep, my boat is made out of plywood and epoxy. Much stronger pound for pound than fiberglass.
No argument there, not that a pound for pound comparison really tells you much. A quick search shows:

Density of Marine Plywood: 300-400 kg/m^3
Density of Fiberglass: 2580 kg/m^3

But honestly just messin' with ya. I really don't care a whole lot about this thread one way or the other. I especially thought the bit about Bene's being made of particle board was hilarious! I know my boat and love it, and don't really care what other people's preconceived options are. But maybe you could lighten up a little bit on the opinions of OPB's, because believe it or not there are some of us who could not imagine someone who would seriously consider an older plywood "semi-custom" boat to be preferable to a newer fiberglass "production" one. Other than my light-hearted poke, I don't see anyone critiquing your preferences in boats.

Good luck in your search for your next boat. Whatever it is I hope you enjoy it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 20:05   #488
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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No, my boat required no further upgrades. Just maintenance. I had her out last week in 35 knots. No problem.

If you want to argue that your Chevrolet is as safe as my Mercedes, go right ahead. Heck, the Chevy can cruise just fine at 70 on the highway, has a radio, air conditioning and all the amenities. But it won't last nearly as long as a Mercedes, won't be worth nearly as much when you sell it and won't protect you nearly as well when someone crashes into you. Do millions of people get by with Chevrolets? Sure. But don't pretend that your nautical equivalent (Jeanneau, Bavaria, Beneteau,. Hunter, Catalina) is just as safe than a Morris or a Hallberg Rassy. It isn't. It was built to a price point and the design philosophy was BBSB--big beds sell boats-- not safety in force 8 or better.
Not I'm not arguing that one boat is safer than another. To use the car analogy (which I don't think really applies but ...) a Hummer is probably safer than your Mercedes but you don't "need" a Hummer do you? And apparently, you don't "need" to have a Morris or HR to go water sailing">blue water sailing. It is being done every day by these production boats without a lot or any significant upgrades. They may not be your choice but why trash what is obviously working for lots of people?
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Old 07-06-2011, 20:36   #489
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I'm simply expressing a preference. If I'm going to go offshore, it won't be in a production boat built to a price point. Others can make their own choices. Moitissier was planning to cross the Atlantic in a boat made of newspaper and tar. I wouldn't do that either.
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Old 07-06-2011, 20:44   #490
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Others can make their own choices.
That's generous of you.
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Old 07-06-2011, 22:06   #491
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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No, my boat required no further upgrades. Just maintenance. I had her out last week in 35 knots. No problem.

If you want to argue that your Chevrolet is as safe as my Mercedes, go right ahead. Heck, the Chevy can cruise just fine at 70 on the highway, has a radio, air conditioning and all the amenities. But it won't last nearly as long as a Mercedes, won't be worth nearly as much when you sell it and won't protect you nearly as well when someone crashes into you. Do millions of people get by with Chevrolets? Sure. But don't pretend that your nautical equivalent (Jeanneau, Bavaria, Beneteau,. Hunter, Catalina) is just as safe than a Morris or a Hallberg Rassy. It isn't. It was built to a price point and the design philosophy was BBSB--big beds sell boats-- not safety in force 8 or better.
Of course my boat, although small, was purpose built and equipped for blue water by her first owner.

The highlighted text you wrote previously, thought I better remind you.
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Old 07-06-2011, 22:09   #492
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Yeah. I don't slag other peoples boats.


Except cats, of course

Oh, thats a point. Why don't those same snobs slag catamarans that come off the same production lines as Beneteau and Jeneau?

Really they just get annoyed by Mono hull production boats? As Americans would say: Go figure!
The reason is the Cat owners seem to agree that the old boats did have deficiency's and the newer designs are superior.
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Old 07-06-2011, 22:24   #493
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Is there a consensus on what constitutes an offshore sailing yacht?
Hull configuration?
Rigging properties?
Cockpit properties?
Electronics that you really aren't comfortable going 400 miles off shore without?
Fuel capacity?
Water capacity?
Galley configuration?
Size?

Obviously, more is generally better, but what is considered a minimal, sane configuration?
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Old 07-06-2011, 22:30   #494
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Is there a consensus on what constitutes an offshore sailing yacht?
No.
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:58   #495
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2 - cruise with it the way it comes and just accept the survival/camping style of life aboard .
As opposed to living in a cramped and cluttered junk yard? Several "blue water cruiser" type yachts in my marina look very "steptoe and son".

Maybe there are merits to the design of bwc's that make them more suitable for many aspects of the passage making, but once you are at the destination modern production boats win hands down in the comfort stakes, unless you have the budget for a modern bwc.
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