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Old 03-06-2011, 17:59   #451
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Amazing thread to read (my eyes are crossed and butt is numb!) If you all feel like keeping it going, please feel free to add any comments to my threadhttp://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/new-to-sailing-and-struggling-with-plan-61734.html
Already some good advice, but always looking for another point of view.
also, here is good site of couple crossing pacific on their Catalina (I think 27'). Awesome daily video log on trip from hawaii to washington of captain see sick for something like 14 days. They are on their way back to hawaii now Going to sea, Cruising Lealea Voyages
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Old 04-06-2011, 17:12   #452
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Originally Posted by bigjer40 View Post
Amazing thread to read (my eyes are crossed and butt is numb!) If you all feel like keeping it going, please feel free to add any comments to my threadhttp://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/new-to-sailing-and-struggling-with-plan-61734.html
Already some good advice, but always looking for another point of view.
also, here is good site of couple crossing pacific on their Catalina (I think 27'). Awesome daily video log on trip from hawaii to washington of captain see sick for something like 14 days. They are on their way back to hawaii now Going to sea, Cruising Lealea Voyages
Thanks for the link. They have a nice site, but its an Albin Vega 27 not a Catalina.
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Old 04-06-2011, 21:46   #453
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Enuf of this drift. Baack to subject. Looked on yw. Good pickings. What other manufacturers would have such bargains? For under 100k you can pick up a 30-42 ft boat less than 5-8 years old. And not the coast racy ones either.

If I wasn't an old keeler I'd say that's a hard bargain to beat. It's pretty. It's clean it floats. It goes. What else do you want? Kevlar underwear?
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:13   #454
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I have done a major clean up on this thread, since much of the last few pages was off-topic.

The thread has been a very useful (and interesting) one thus far, and I would like to be able to keep it open; so please help out by moving on and discussing the topic at hand and refraining from any personal comment.

Thanks,
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:51   #455
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Been out sailing for a few days while this thread has moved on.

Re: composite board vs. plywood. It could be that some were made one way, others differently. I KNOW I have seen composite on a bene (may have been an early one) at least once. Like I said, I looked at many with a friend a few years back (who sadly passed away last year, still with his C&C27). Strictly speaking, there shouldn't be anything wrong with composite or plywood, as long as the glue is up to a marine environment. My concern was more about asethetics - the veneer chipping in the corners and in some places pealing off.

That doesn't affect the seaworthiness of the boat(s), of course, which I have not impugned here.

I am curious though about the in-mast furling. The other day I walked past a Hunter with in-mast and tried to identify the source of a pretty awful metal-on-metal racket coming from the mast. When I could see no evidence of rigging slamming against anything, I concluded it must be the roller mechanism inside. It looked like the main had been removed, so maybe it's a consequence of that ...? Or, perhaps, the mechanism has come loose and is rattling around inside -- yikes! Anyone know?
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:07   #456
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Does this really mean anything other than as it applies to that specific model? Lots of boats sail well with the main alone, and some with the genny alone? Just a boat designed balance thingie.
No, it's just one data point. Again, I am making an observation here based on MY experience, which it has otherwise been suggested that I "made up."
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:13   #457
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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yehaaah seahunter. Saltymonkkey knows a lot about this rogue wave stuff, and lemme tell ya ain't nothing - not even a steel aircraft carrier - gonna do well @ 100 tons per sq metre and a 30 metre wave. Love hearin folks braggard about how thinky their OLD fiberglass boat is. The rogues are great equalizers...yaaa? .sooooo

all things being equal i is a guessin dis bennie thing aint too shabby aye buckeye? And wearin a speedo on one is kinda cool too!

Its all in the dang captain who negres on upgrading his rig IMKO! 1x18 staylock or pay the price.
Having sailed both in heavy weather and been chained to the dock for the last few years, I can tell you from personal experience that getting hit by another boat at the pier appears to be at least 2x as likely as getting hit by a rogue wave.
I'll keep my thick hull, thank you very much.
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Old 06-06-2011, 14:10   #458
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

My bad, not sure why I thought it was a Catalina??? Still worth watching the end of the video Poor Guy!
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Old 06-06-2011, 15:11   #459
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First, a declaration of interest: I own a Bavaria 49. I believe production yachts can be serious ocean boats. Check out the latest New Zealand to Fiji race that started last weekend. This is a serious ocean crossing; it's winter in the southern ocean here and there are a number of Beneteaus doing the race. http://www.rnzys.org.nz/Sailing/Rega...5/Default.aspx . Also have a look at the bare-boat charter companies in Tonga and New Zealand. They are almost all fiberglass production boats and they are the same boats. Dozens of them are sailed up to Tonga in May and back to New Zealand in October - November. It's all to do with how are they setup and how are they maintained, not what they are made of.
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Old 06-06-2011, 20:22   #460
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Okay, all my posts in this thread have been deleted by the moderators for being off topic. We're not allowed to make a joke, just serious posts...

so, here it is: my understanding and my view on the matter;

When one of these brands decide to design a new model, they start with the naval architect who draws a hull and rig for the length stated. Do not think that the hulls from these architects ain't good: they are modern, fast and good looking.

But.... what happens next: some marketing droid decides the market to target with this design, which is... charter market. Now the designers group are forced to put 8 beds in that hull incl. a walk around bed in an aft stateroom etc. This requires a superstructure on deck to create more interior volume. On some catamarans they even move that pesky mast away for more room (just rake it a "bit" more). 8 beds and 2-4 heads later the boat has become a bit heavier than the architect had in mind and he is forced to see his safety margins in rigging, keel bolts etc. disappear with every pound gained in the boats interior.

So now there are complaints from some potential customers who want to buy a boat for themselves instead of buying it for a charter fleet. The sales droids quickly create an owners version. This is the charter version with some of the beds removed. There's no question that this is way 2nd rate compared to a design that has cruising as it's primary target from the first lines put on paper to the splash in the water.

If you want to cruise with one of these production boats you have to make a decision:

1 - convert it to a cruiser first.

2 - cruise with it the way it comes and just accept the survival/camping style of life aboard and the weak points like rigging, keel and rudder (go easy on them)

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 06-06-2011, 21:35   #461
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

In many areas you are probably right but the problem is most of us cannot afford a purpose built cruising boat read as low production numbers very high cost. Life is full of compromises and as thousands of cruisers world wide are proving each day they will do the job with little money spent. Compared with the money required to repair and refurbish an older cruising boat. Remember when those old clunkers were built you had to carry all your water as water makers were not around so big water tanks. Lots of fuel because anything under 10knts and they hardly moved. Modern boats are much lighter sail much faster in light winds hence no need for vast quantities of fuel to be carried. Solar cells wind generators all go to make a modern cruising boat a vastly different proposition.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:50   #462
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Okay, all my posts in this thread have been deleted by the moderators for being off topic. We're not allowed to make a joke, just serious posts...

so, here it is: my understanding and my view on the matter;

When one of these brands decide to design a new model, they start with the naval architect who draws a hull and rig for the length stated. Do not think that the hulls from these architects ain't good: they are modern, fast and good looking.

But.... what happens next: some marketing droid decides the market to target with this design, which is... charter market. Now the designers group are forced to put 8 beds in that hull incl. a walk around bed in an aft stateroom etc. This requires a superstructure on deck to create more interior volume. On some catamarans they even move that pesky mast away for more room (just rake it a "bit" more). 8 beds and 2-4 heads later the boat has become a bit heavier than the architect had in mind and he is forced to see his safety margins in rigging, keel bolts etc. disappear with every pound gained in the boats interior.

So now there are complaints from some potential customers who want to buy a boat for themselves instead of buying it for a charter fleet. The sales droids quickly create an owners version. This is the charter version with some of the beds removed. There's no question that this is way 2nd rate compared to a design that has cruising as it's primary target from the first lines put on paper to the splash in the water.

If you want to cruise with one of these production boats you have to make a decision:

1 - convert it to a cruiser first.

2 - cruise with it the way it comes and just accept the survival/camping style of life aboard and the weak points like rigging, keel and rudder (go easy on them)

ciao!
Nick.
For better or worse, as cruising has increasingly become an everyman (and everywoman) endeavor instead of the exclusive realm of the bearded, half-crazed, ocean-crossing single-hander (circa 1970), the simple need for a seaworthy boat and a comfortable sea berth gradually gave way to a demand for condo-like amenities.

I'm not suggesting for a second that we all want or need double-ended wooden ketches, but there is a balance to be struck.

And I know for sure these marketing folks you speak of are consciencious enough never to seriously jeapordize seaworthiness for the chance to make an extra buck.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:15   #463
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

It's disengenuous to say that production boats win ocean races. Sure, if you have a Beneteau First with every inch of her inspected, new rigging, the latest equipment plus all of the additional safety equipment that the race organizers require (at an additional cost of many thousands), plus a crew of six or eight experienced sailors, then yes, you have a good blue water boat.

As for run-of-the-mill Hunters, Beneteaus, Catalinas, Bavarias, etc., they may make a good blue water boat for you---but not for me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:34   #464
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I have just read a book by one of those "bearded, half-crazed, ocean-crossing single-hander" types, though he had a wife.

He slagged production boats from page 1 to page 304. The front cover photo showed an idylic tropical island with just 4 boats at anchor. All production boats, of course.

There's a gernerational change happening.... as soon as all you old buggers die we can sail comfortably with chartplotters, sat phones and freezers. Safety included at no extra cost.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:36   #465
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Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

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I have just read a book by one of those "bearded, half-crazed, ocean-crossing single-hander" types, though he had a wife.

He slagged production boats from page 1 to page 304. Yet the front cover photo showed an idylic tropical island with just 4 boats at anchor. all production boats, of course.

There's a gernerational change happening.... as soon as all you old buggers die we can sail comfortably with chartplotters, sat phones and freezers. Safety included at no extra cost.

Mark
Well, that's fine, but I'm never going to get used to the "kitchens and bathrooms" on their boats, no matter how spacious.

I, too, own one of those "production boats" unless your definition is different than mine. Something like 650 Tayana 37s were made, so that's hardly custom. And, there are (purportedly) more of them out cruising than any other single design. Go figure.

And ... watch who you're calling old! I'm 45!
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