Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 4.00 average. Display Modes
Old 26-05-2011, 08:47   #361
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
But to be fair, in the "good old days" they also built a lot of rubbish - for exactly the same reasons that businesses use in the present day. and will in the future. It's cheaper. it's what the market demands, they think it will be ok, it will be ok for a few years, 10 years on it ain't my problem......oh, and poor design, poor management and idiots on site.

But overall, IMO (blah blah blah) I think a lot less making things up as they go along than in the good old days - but that don't automatically involve good answers 10 years on.
Absolutely. Among other things, it's obvious to me that the builders of my boat did not expect fiberglass to be around for 30 years, or else did not care. As a result, some of their building techniques took no account of future changes/upgrades.
__________________

__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 09:51   #362
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Boaty sums things up. I don't necessarily agree w Davy...unless wer'e talking Island Packets or catalina or hunter or some of the manufacturers that came and went over that golden age in trying to break market.

Benns, Jeanns, and Bavs - the subject. Lets focus here. True, in some ways. FIRSTS used to be desirable. FIRSTS now are junky. But I don't think you need to accept every new model or line as gospel. I doubt anyone would decline a free Bennie line cruiser if it came knocking. Might be a few adjustments to make, but nothing that you wouldn't do with those old clunkers either.
__________________

__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 10:21   #363
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

It's interesting to note that you have to go back 56 posts in this thread to find anything posted by someone owning a Beneteau, Jeanneau, or Bavaria yacht. I suspect that these boat owners tuned out of the thread the moment the boat bashing began.

There seem to be a few individuals on this forum, most of whom don't even own boats, who seem determined to drive away anyone who owns a production boat. That really has to stop.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 10:41   #364
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I have often wondered if the mind-boggling number of models and variations put out by Beneteau isn't a double-edged sword. When I see one out on the water, I know from a distance that it's a Bene, but I would need a scorecard to know which one -- and which one makes all the difference to enthusiasts. By the same token, no one wants a 1984 Toyota Corolla anymore and I think the glam and glitter of the "latest" Beneteau wears off pretty quickly and with it, the re-sale value. LET ME BE CLEAR: I have sailed on Benes and Jennies and although I have a few issues with them, nothing major. They generally sail nicely and, if I had the money, I might even consider one. But then, if I had the money, I'd probably get a newish Valiant 40.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 10:49   #365
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It's interesting to note that you have to go back 56 posts in this thread to find anything posted by someone owning a Beneteau, Jeanneau, or Bavaria yacht. I suspect that these boat owners tuned out of the thread the moment the boat bashing began.

There seem to be a few individuals on this forum, most of whom don't even own boats, who seem determined to drive away anyone who owns a production boat. That really has to stop.
Peeshaw. Nearly everyone on this forum owns a "production" boat.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 10:59   #366
Marine Service Provider
 
pablothesailor's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spain and London
Boat: Corbin 39
Posts: 332
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
I have often wondered if the mind-boggling number of models and variations put out by Beneteau isn't a double-edged sword. When I see one out on the water, I know from a distance that it's a Bene, but I would need a scorecard to know which one -- and which one makes all the difference to enthusiasts. By the same token, no one wants a 1984 Toyota Corolla anymore and I think the glam and glitter of the "latest" Beneteau wears off pretty quickly and with it, the re-sale value. LET ME BE CLEAR: I have sailed on Benes and Jennies and although I have a few issues with them, nothing major. They generally sail nicely and, if I had the money, I might even consider one. But then, if I had the money, I'd probably get a newish Valiant 40.

You take me back 12 months, when i first started looking at Boats the Valiant 40was one I was drawn to, I think its designer Bob Perry posts on here from time to time? There was quite a big problem with Blisters on certain hull numbers at one stage but as long as you avoid those it looks to be a really solid boat that was way ahead of its time when it 1st came out! Not seen many in Europe though?
__________________
pablothesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 11:06   #367
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablothesailor View Post
You take me back 12 months, when i first started looking at Boats the Valiant 40was one I was drawn to, I think its designer Bob Perry posts on here from time to time? There was quite a big problem with Blisters on certain hull numbers at one stage but as long as you avoid those it looks to be a really solid boat that was way ahead of its time when it 1st came out! Not seen many in Europe though?
Yeah, that's true about the blisters. The earliest versions were made by Uniflite (which, I believe, became Chris Craft). I am not sure of the ones with particular blister problems, but I believe it was circa early-to-mid 80s.

I heard a few months ago that Valiant Yachts went Chapter 11, so the future of the design is in question now.

This brings up another possible point in favor of the Benes, Jennies, though. It seems that unless the boats are made assembly-line fashion (like Fords and Beneteaus), the manufacturers inevitably go belly up and then you've got only the fellow owners to rely on for advice and sourcing of parts.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 11:38   #368
Registered User
 
Khagan1227's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Boat: In the hunt again, unknown
Posts: 1,330
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I used to be a "full keel = bluewater boat" fanatic until I had a conversation with Liza Copeland a while back. If you don't know who Liza is, she and her husband Andy circumnavigated a few years back in a Beneteau 38', then wrote several books on the trips, etc.

I asked her why she and Andy chose a Beneteau over a bluewater boat for the circumnavigation. Her answer, while it has not swayed me completely away from full keeled boats, reminded me that there are two sides to every arguement and sometimes, the other side might actually make some sense.

Liza replied that while most didn't consider a Bene a "bluewater boat", she made a crossing from Canada to Ireland with another full keeled boat. If I remember correctly, her crossing took around 23 days. During which they moved out of the path of 4 or 5 gales. The other boat being full keeled and slower, ended up heaving to for several weeks during their transit, making the crossing much slower than Liza's.

The point here being that Benes are bluewater boats and at the time of Liza's crossing it was "new" technology. So to answer the OP's original question, all things being equal, I'd get the newer boat and the newer technology it has to offer.

Currently during our search, I have looked at Tayanas, Morgan O/I, but I have also looked at Beneteaus, Hunters and even a Bavaria (I would like to know more about Boatman's adversion to a Baveria) or two.

As Jim Cate said in an earlier post, listen, evaluate, investigate, educate and make YOUR choice.

Keith
Khagan1227 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 11:39   #369
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
There seem to be a few individuals on this forum, most of whom don't even own boats, who seem determined to drive away anyone who owns a production boat. That really has to stop.
And what is your reasoning that if you own something or don't own something at some point in your life you are less knowledgable than someone who does? Reeks again of elitism.

*ptui - I'm all for production boats, Bash. Read more closely. And why isn't Catalina or Hunter discussed here either? Certainly should given today.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 11:44   #370
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
This brings up another possible point in favor of the Benes, Jennies, though. It seems that unless the boats are made assembly-line fashion (like Fords and Beneteaus), the manufacturers inevitably go belly up and then you've got only the fellow owners to rely on for advice and sourcing of parts.
That might be a fallacy. If you actually look at the manufacturing floor, the quality is actually improved or the same as old school techniques. They've cut down the inefficiency and waste. its actually quite impressive...not just marketing blabla.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 11:52   #371
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,314
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

I have a 25 yr old Beneteau First 456, and can highly recommend it. With a tall rig and lead keel and 8 ft draft, its performance is awesome and its a great looking boat. It is a true joy to sail, eats Swans and Jenneau's for breakfast, and I have won every regatta I've entered. The layup and equipment is stronger than the later Beneteaus, especially the cruising ones. It has carried me 75,000 miles over the past 15 years, around the world and then some.

I would agree that owner maintenance is a key factor on older boats. Since we completed our circumnavigation, I have replaced the engine, sails, standing rigging, refrigeration, radar, windlass, canvas, heads, and countless other things. With exception of the refrigeration, everything was working when I replaced it--the name of the game is preventative maintenance.

Another key factor is equipment. Give me 5 minutes on a boat and I can tell whether the owner went for the cheapest or the best equipment. Most new Ben/Jen/Bav production boats are equipped with the former. Also look for the cruising equipment like solar panels wind/water generators and watermakers. Look for extensive cruising spares, like alternators, injectors, and pumps

As far as dealer support goes, the last thing I bought from Beneteau was replacement bathroom sinks 10 years ago, as the old plastic ones cracked. The new ones cracked in 5 years, and have now been replaced with fiberglass, which will last a lifetime. With most of the boat, it is better to go with local craftsmen. In Thailand, I had the teak decks and trim replaced for under $5,000 and the result was superior to the original. I pointed to the tacky looking vinyl trim around the interior and said 'make teak', and the Thai's happily did it for almost nothing.

The best part of my good old boat, it is only worth 25% of what a new production boat would cost you.--I would happily sell it for 90,000 euros.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 12:08   #372
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

The 1980 FIRSTS are worth looking at incl 35, 38, 40 series. Interiors are strong...Oceanis were also interesting to me.

The newer FIRSTs are totally disappointing to me. But the newer Beneteau series IS interesting to me and worth considering.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 12:19   #373
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
That might be a fallacy. If you actually look at the manufacturing floor, the quality is actually improved or the same as old school techniques. They've cut down the inefficiency and waste. its actually quite impressive...not just marketing blabla.
Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 12:37   #374
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,575
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Peeshaw. Nearly everyone on this forum owns a "production" boat.
Nearly.


We found that the desirability of a custom steel design that had most of the qualities we had extracted from the wish lists of people who've done the trip (engine access, centerline tankage, transom-hung rudder, pilothouse) and from reading many of the cruising narratives of the last 40 years exceeded the "Bene"-fits of a more modern and certainly faster and wider design.

The voyager would rather spend two weeks at sea in comfort than nine or 10 days of pounding, I learned. Hence, our decision. The very few "production" boats we liked are way out of our league, anyway.

Your nautical mileage may, of course, vary.
__________________
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-05-2011, 12:39   #375
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,575
Re: Can Jeanneau , Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean Crossing Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
The 1980 FIRSTS are worth looking at incl 35, 38, 40 series. Interiors are strong...Oceanis were also interesting to me.

The newer FIRSTs are totally disappointing to me. But the newer Beneteau series IS interesting to me and worth considering.
I too like the older First line and the later Oceanis models were nice, but were more for near shore work to me than for long-haul cruising.

But people can and do take these boats everywhere, and so they should. Of modern design, however, I prefer the Swans and the Malos and the Sagas...I just couldn't afford 'em!
__________________

__________________
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bavaria, beneteau, jeanneau, monohull, ocean crossing, offshore

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beneteau, Bavaria and Jeanneau bg9208 Monohull Sailboats 36 17-05-2015 13:52
Bavaria 50 Cruiser vs Jeanneau 49 Leif Monohull Sailboats 3 01-03-2011 11:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.