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Old 29-12-2009, 15:03   #181
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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Good God! How long is this going to go on?
How else am I going to get to 20 posts?
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Old 29-12-2009, 15:27   #182
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I think that sums it up. I said earlier in this thread that production boats can be adequate blue water boats if properly equipped. Methinks the production boat advocates doth protest too much.

I do object, however, to the notion that "modern construction techniques" and "space age materials" make these mass produced boats superior to purpose built cruising boats.
Well, that's not exactly what you said. In your myriad of posts denigrating these boats you did slip one in there about how a production boat could be safe if "upgrad[ed]." That's not the same as "properly equipped," the latter of course applying to any boat ever made of any quality.

And no one said anything about "space age" anything making mass produced boats better than "purpose built cruising boats," whatever that's supposed to mean anyway (I'm pretty sure all cruising boats are built for the purpose of cruising). And though you now appear to say that DenverdnOn's view "sums it up," you've been saying something quite different for the past few days in this thread. I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, but it seems as though you are not really interested in a meaningful discussion, but rather simply prefer to sling a little mud, which of course is fine for the entertainment value.

In any event, it is true that this thread now has gone round and round long enough.

Let me know if you plan to venture south on that woody to the islands or perhaps further to the west towards NY. Would love to share a beer with you in our dangerous, unseaworthy, plastic (but large and very comfortable) cockpit, where we could watch a REAL baseball team.
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Old 29-12-2009, 15:53   #183
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I'm a Yankee fan. I hope you weren't referring to the Mets.

If I run into you in the islands, I'll take you up on the beer and offer you a glass of good Bordeaux with a real cork in it from my custom built-in wine rack (yes, it's teak).
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Old 29-12-2009, 17:12   #184
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I'm a Yankee fan.
Me too. Esp. Yankee 30.

b.
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Old 29-12-2009, 17:22   #185
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Okay, for sure, this has gone on way too long...
And as far as I am concerned, I cave, I bow, I pledge to the new expert of all things boating to... CURMUDGEN.
I am moving to the desert. Changing my name. I will be eating sand and refusing water.
I had my chance. I was fooled into buying a boat that was inferior in design. I am stupid. If only had I known about Curmudgen, the briliant ruler of the sea. Curmudgen the great. The all knowing.
Alas, I am weak. I must die.
Farewell to all who do not have a "stitch and gluestick" Curmudgeon like sea-conquering hardchine plywood megayacht.
'nuf said.
The next sound you will hear will be the gurgling of my unworthy lungs as I reach for water to sooth the sand I breath.
But wait... I'm back.
No that was just the death rattle of another Beneteau owner.
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Old 29-12-2009, 18:29   #186
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Ask a delivery skipper?

Yesterday someone commented that hearing from a delivery skipper might advance the discussion. Maybe. So long as we are discussing features that fit under the "normal" part of the distribution curve.

Here's my take. I have raced a bunch of different types of boats and delivered/charter boat skippered a bunch more, mono and multi hulls. I have been at it for over forty years.

In the case of "normal" boats:

There are very few unseaworthy boats any more. There are unseaworthy sailors by the gross. That is my concern/interest.

The custom boats have more interesting details but the same problems as every production boat. My personal take has been that the more the owner has to do with the design process the more likely the boat is to be useful to that person only. Production boats require more personalization.

Hang out in the boat yards of the world and you'll see all kinds of boats come in for repair of the same things. After working on Beneteau, Bavaria, Catalina, Jeanneau, and many custom boats: they are pretty much the same. Some are better than others. Better sailors have better boats.

We chose our production boat because we could afford it and fix it without many special tools. And... we loved her style. Suited us to a T. That's actually all that matters.

My opinion. Better sailors sail more safely and have more "fun" than poor sailors. The discussion about becoming a better sailor is the more compelling topic. It is a topic around which I am developing specialized content.

Thanks for reading. Norm out.
Averisera - the adventure
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Old 29-12-2009, 18:32   #187
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Good Grief!!!

What an incredible waste of Bandwidth--

Daniel, Liam, Randy et al,

Curmudgeon has clearly backed himself into a corner with his unqualified, ungifted opinions on yachts of which he quite obviously has little knowledge and less experience. That said, judging by his latest posts he evidently realizes the error of his vituperations and seems to be trying to dial down the invective and escape the trap he’s laid for himself. If however, you continue to kick him back into his corner, he has little choice but to defend his position, regardless of how admittedly untenable, as a matter of pride. For some, admitting an error is all but an existential threat. Given the foregoing, let it go. The continuing discourse serves no useful purpose and really lends nothing to answering ibrgic’s original question “Can Jeanneau, Bavaria or Beneteau Be Good as Ocean-Crossing Boats?” (to which the simplest answer is “Yes!” n'est-ce pas?)

FWIW…
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Old 29-12-2009, 18:53   #188
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I'm a Yankee fan. I hope you weren't referring to the Mets.

If I run into you in the islands, I'll take you up on the beer and offer you a glass of good Bordeaux with a real cork in it from my custom built-in wine rack (yes, it's teak).
You're a Yankee fan!! That changes everything! I just assumed you'd route for that second-class organization they have up your way, but then again you know what happens when you assume.

You're on re: the beer, wine or whatever. How often do you get south, and when do you usually go? We spent a few weeks cruising the Vineyard and Nantucket last year. Not sure we'll get that far east this year, but you never know. It probably depends on whether I sail to Bermuda in June with our rally. We'll certainly go to Block, however, but that might be too far west for you.
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:00   #189
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What an incredible waste of Bandwidth--
Waste of bandwidth??!!! Do you have any idea how much more fun this is than work?
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:37   #190
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Being nice...

A gentle reminder to all that being nice is a key part of our rules.
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:42   #191
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niceties

nice people, nice forum, nice boats

how nice ;-)
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:47   #192
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Well, the show must go on!! Ok i am a delivery skipper, anyone one with a good question about this boats,? but pls really just a question about the boat, i dont like the start the war mass production boats /v/ semi custom production boats etc...
After 7 deliverys across the atlantic from France to the Caribbean maybe i can help you to understand how this boats are made and how this boats sail in some conditions.
Cheers.
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Old 29-12-2009, 20:11   #193
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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Well, the show must go on!! Ok i am a delivery skipper, anyone one with a good question about this boats,? but pls really just a question about the boat, i dont like the start the war mass production boats /v/ semi custom production boats etc...
After 7 deliverys across the atlantic from France to the Caribbean maybe i can help you to understand how this boats are made and how this boats sail in some conditions.
Cheers.
Which boat(s)?
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Old 29-12-2009, 20:19   #194
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Boats? Is this a boating forum or smthn'g?

Gosh, I thought it was all about been NICE and not starting any new wars ;-)

Bad b.
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Old 29-12-2009, 20:29   #195
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You're a Yankee fan!! That changes everything! I just assumed you'd route for that second-class organization they have up your way, but then again you know what happens when you assume.

You're on re: the beer, wine or whatever. How often do you get south, and when do you usually go? We spent a few weeks cruising the Vineyard and Nantucket last year. Not sure we'll get that far east this year, but you never know. It probably depends on whether I sail to Bermuda in June with our rally. We'll certainly go to Block, however, but that might be too far west for you.
Well I sail out of Jamestown, RI so I go to Block, Cuttyhunk and Menemsha quite often.
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