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Old 14-12-2015, 13:02   #106
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Terranova, if you were a C link would you want to be bound up with dyneema and smeared with silicone?Insensitive bugger!!
Bet you pull grasshoppers wings off too.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:29   #107
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

brianlara and Guy:

Would either of you use a connecting link or carry a spare? and would you please be kind enough to tell us the reasons for your decision?

Thank you very much,

Ann (the one who didn't know the term "stud link")
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:47   #108
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Hey, don't feel bad. I thought Stud Link was a bar on that wharf in San Francisco.
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:48   #109
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
Insensitive bugger!!
Bet you pull grasshoppers wings off too.

"What a mean thing. What a mean thing to do."
Gomer Pyle.
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:03   #110
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

I don't have a C link onboard but I do have several things to connect chain. A real chain connecting link does fit through the windlass, kind of. There is a fancy link I bought that does have a stud but does not fit through the windlass. If you could inspect a C link that would be nice but otherwise you just need to trust things to be ok and add a little string for safety.
Seems like the advocates of C links are just trying to save money which is great but to argue that a C link is as good as chain is pretty weak.
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:07   #111
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
So you too are clueless about "stud link chain"? How can you discuss chain failure and not know the basics?
Although Guy is correct that the proof load of stud chain exceeds the proof load of studless, the main criteria for using stud chain is that it is less prone to kinking and tangling in a chain locker, and also passes over a gypsy more easily.

I'm currently working on a project offshore where we will be using 102mm stud chain for mooring a rig, and also in the tow rigging for a 5km long pipeline bundle, and 120mm studless chain for mooring a Floating Production, Storage and Offloading facility. The FPSO will be on location for about 5 years before the moorings are inspected, so the chains will not be moved much, the rig will move every few weeks, so stud chain is preferred.
There will definitely be joining links in the chain as well.
If anyone is interested, the starting price for a 102mm slim kenter link is about US$7500, but with a bit of haggling you can get that knocked down to US$4,000 (if you agree to buy 3 of them).

If you want to look at proof loads of stud and studless chain, then look here
http://files.vikingseatech.com/dokum...ndbook.pdf?t=1

Careful Ann, this publication contains pictures


This thread has been informative, sometimes entertaining, and occasionally bad mannered, so can we try and keep to the subject, and, if anyone disagrees with someone else, then do so with a polite counter argument.
Thanks, nuff said


,
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Old 14-12-2015, 14:19   #112
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Guy, do we need to again remind you that those two little pins are NOT load bearing. They merely hold the two halves of the Cs together. Evans does not even peen them over in his usage... uses some sort of akenpuckey to hold them in place.

In all our years of cruising, we've only known of two chains breaking. neither one had a joining link installed.

It is fine if you don't want to use them, but your belittling of those who do (successfully, for years of full time cruising/anchoring) is getting annoying.

Jim
Hi Jim
That word akenpuckey intrigued me so off to google I went...

"colloquial slang term used, (especially by plumbers &
pipe fitters), for any slimy, gooey substance, whether
identifiable or not.
whatís this junk on the sheet, fred? man, donít touch it- it looks like ackenpucky!
"

And....it is definitely getting warmer down here in Tasmania. Thank goodness.
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Old 14-12-2015, 15:48   #113
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Dear Ann. The original question was " should I lengthen the 40metres I have or should I buy a longer chain" Yes?
So, given that cost didnt appear to be a prime concern I suggested he move his short chain to the rear as 40m is adequate for there, and buy the length of chain he chooses for the bower...unbroken, one piece.
For the life of me I can't imagine anyone going into a Chandler and buying (in Whitworths eg) a 50kg length and 25kg length and joining them.
If on your boat you had six pieces of pwb or cwp, all brand new, which totalled, say, 75 metres ( a reasonable length), would you join them into one unbroken length? If not, why not?
Now, to answer your (seemingly) honest and genuine question, an unequivocal no! , no I have no joining links on board and will never have.
Reason being the same reason you aren't going to join those six pieces you theoretically have.
We buy chain, good chain we hope, because we chose a spec we deem suitable...if you were loading chain into your truck at Whitties and you saw an anomaly which just turned out to be an "in factory weld" a lengthening, you'd take it back inside, and feel that pwb had conned you. Yep, pwb know how to weld, but this weld was a human and expert weld right?.
Wrong, not good enough, the weld needs to have been done by the same machine which welded every single link.
Now a question for you.
If you could get thousands of new, best quality C links for free, would you join them together and anchor on the windward side of Lion Island in conditions like we had in April 2015 ?
During those 3 blowey days I had a bit of protection, not a lot, gusting 40ish, but despite being tossed around like a cork I had no fear of losing the bottom...a good pick, a good swivel and a good bit of chain...one bit of chain.
As you are possibly one of the worlds treasures I'm going to assume, rightly or wrongly, that I haven't just been wound up.
Cheers Brian Metcalfe.
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Old 14-12-2015, 15:52   #114
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

In all seriousness this thread and the data from Cox Engineering has changed my opinion. Three years or so ago I decided my 200' of 3/8 G4 wasn't long enough and not wanting to add a "weak link" I bought 330' of new 3/8 G4 chain and sold the older chain on Craig's List. If I had it to do over I would use one of the better quality C-links and just buy 100' of chain. Okay, I've learned an expensive lesson. Just don't tell my wife.


S/V B'Shert
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Old 14-12-2015, 15:59   #115
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Ann.
Another question if I may.
Assuming you have joined chain, would you feel comfortable, sleeping like a baby, anchoring off Bondi Beach in a 50++ southerly?
You had no choice...the mast fell down and the prop became tangled...
I'm curious.
I always assume the above scenario and am ready to hold 60 feet in 50 knots...controlled from the cockpit...not getting out on bed for anything. With a good dose of war neurosis I take steps to minimise foreseeable anxieties.
Cheers.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:46   #116
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1;198733

If you want to look at proof loads of stud and studless chain, then look here
[url
http://files.vikingseatech.com/dokumenter/general%20documents/Viking-Moorings-Marine-Equipment-Handbook.pdf?t=1[/url]
i,
What a great catalog. Did you notice that stud chain was more than twice as strong as regular chain? All the connecting links seemed to have a center pin or stud also. Too bad it was all at least 3/4"
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Old 14-12-2015, 19:35   #117
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Cate & Cate. Ann, Madam, you asked me a question which ended with "please tell us".
Surely, when you and your physicist significant other attempt to bring attention to yourselves by winding people up, surely, can you not see, that it reflect upon you?
No, can't see it?
Mmm.
I TRUSTED you to have been asking a legitimate & curious question.
I think I was born gullable (the mark of an honest person) and clearly I still am....and I thank God!
Brian Metcalfe. (standing by, but not with bated breath)
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Old 14-12-2015, 20:06   #118
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Hi, Brian,

I'll start with the last one, no I would not feel comfortable on a lee shore (like Bondi Beach) in 50 knots. Not even in 45. This would mostly be because jerky motion bothers my body, and I am happiest when not on a lee shore. I certainly agree that there are times when you have to wait wherever you are to effect repairs. I would probably be concerned enough about the lee shore to maintain anchor watch. I would not, however, worry about our joining links, because I understand them to be as strong as the rest of our chain. I might worry about having another snubber ready to go, too.

I think you were funning, but in case you weren't, I'll sayI would not manufacture a chain from joining links: it would take a really long time, and it's not fun beating them together on the boat, any way; besides building the chain a link at a time, it'd probably cost a lot more than a new chain. I do think an unjoined rode is probably ideal, but I am not worried about our connecting links, partly because of believing them to be as strong as they need to be.

There's a fairly long history to this. When we were getting ready to leave the US in 1986, we knew we'd have the very deep anchorages of the Society Is. in our future, and decided that we needed more chain. The chain we added was added to our primary rode with a connecting link, and we already had what we thought was adequate on our stern rode. That was our first experience using connecting links. We lived aboard cruised that boat for a total of 18 yrs., then bought the new boat.

This boat's rode has two connecting links. It started out as one long piece, but got caught in a NW change in Skeleton Bay, where it got wedged between boulders. We were unable to retrieve all of the chain, though we did manage to rescue the anchor and some of the chain, which we cut. So then we had an anchor and maybe 50 ft. of chain, and another bit of chain, and together, we felt they were inadequate (sometimes we like to veer out a lot), but we were going to have to anchor [shallow] before we could get to Hobart and buy more chain. So, we joined those two pieces. Then we got more chain, and now there are 3 pieces, joined with joining links, and since we are still liveaboard cruising, we can look at them each time we get the hook up. You're right, we can't see if the peened (sp?) over studs are corroding away on the inside, but they've been re-galvanized along with the rest of the chain, which we tend to do as soon as convenient after noticing it needs it, and they are closely inspected at that time, too. So, by next fall, it shall have been 40 yrs. of using connecting links for us, with no problems, but no cyclones/hurricanes, either.

I think they are an important thing to carry one or two of, because you may not know beforehand when you might need to rejoin a cut or broken chain. [And someday, we'll be probably be buying one new, shiny, long piece of chain again.]

As to the OP, if he (as ourselves years ago) already has his stern rode as he wants it, then I believe that it would be safe for him to use a joining link, albeit selected properly. I believe he could sleep soundly on such rode, because we have done so in winds of sustained 55's --gusts higher--during frontal passages, but in Port Davey, and not on a lee shore with miles of fetch.

Others' mileage may vary.

Ann
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Old 14-12-2015, 21:29   #119
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Some photos to consider when planning a cobbled together rode.
Liquid Mountains: I Captured Lake Erie On The Day It Came Alive And Showed Its True Power | Bored Panda
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Old 14-12-2015, 22:32   #120
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Just to set the record straight, I made an error above, we have sat out a cyclone on a rode with a connecting link, it had slipped my mind. It was Cyclone Lisa in back in about 1993, and forecast to go north of us. In any event, our at-the-time anemometer only went up to 60. It was pegged a lot of the time, and I do not know the average wind strengths at our location, Denham Bay, at Raoul Is. in the Kermadec Group, on the line from NZ to Tonga. That anchorage has high blluffs around it, and the gusts accelerated as they came off the cliffs.

As it happened, the eye went over us, and we had to leave.

"Cobbled together" or not, and imperfect, for sure, there was no problem whatsoever with the chain or the connecting link.

Ann
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