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Old 13-12-2015, 11:27   #46
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
so, what storm were you in when your C-link failed? What's the story? Tell us what happened. A lot of people here interested in your negative C-link experiences. Most important question, after the storm forces exceeded the 2700 lb working load of your C-link and your anchor rode parted, Did you survive?
Better yet, why don't you tell us (not that I think you would know) why anyone in his right mind, knowing a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, would join multiple, short lengths of chain together (rather than use one shot) for an anchor rode to prevent his boat from disaster? I would never trust it.
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Old 13-12-2015, 11:52   #47
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Why extend a chain? They only last a few years as a live aboard or cruiser - and they are life and death critical

Just get the longer chain - if know, you at least know where the chain will break.

I was in Hurricane Wilma - my prime and backup bridle broke, my windless came off its mounts, and the chain stretched maybe 20%, but it held. No chance a splice would survive that kind of once in a lifetime punishment.

For occasional anchoring, the extra footage probably won't matter - for cruising or living, a single long length of chain you inspect every month or so is the only safe choice.

Would you re-use old brake shoes on your car? How about used cords on your parachute?
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Old 13-12-2015, 11:52   #48
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
Someone please help Mark J
He asked terranova if he'd bought a boat yet.
Knowing nothing about Terra I went to his profile and saw the he has a Freya 39. And it seems that he's a boat builder too which proves he knows nothing at all (!).
I'd love to tell Mark how I got this info on Terra but only been posting 2 weeks and find all of this trying.
Would one of Marks mates PM him and explain how I got to find out that Terra already has a boat?
Great. So you got my point. Boat builders may build boats but that doesn't mean the have anchored every night for years, or have sailed much, let alone multiple times around the world like Evans.
Also boat builders use someone else's money. Cruisers use their own.
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Old 13-12-2015, 11:58   #49
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Better yet, why don't you tell us (not that I think you would know) why anyone in his right mind, knowing a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, would join multiple, short lengths of chain together (rather than use one shot) for an anchor rode to prevent his boat from disaster? I would never trust it.
Because it is cheaper and faster to buy and assemble a given length of chain, with the same working load as a c-link, out of short lengths of chain and c-links then it is to buy and assemble the same length of chain using only c-links.
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:07   #50
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hi, Guy,

I'm an imaginative female, but I guess you better explain "stud link" to me, maybe at first or second grade level?

Thanks.

Ann
Sorry Ann, but it doesn't involve online dating..

Looks like this... Worker Painting The Anchor Chain White Dry Dock Queen Mary 2 Saintnazaire France Stock Photo | Getty Images

Joining anchor cable? Big ships' chain comes in 15 fathom lengths ( a bit longer these days on the larger ships) .... joined with kenter links that look like this https://www.flickr.com/photos/gcaptain/3512103905

Up to 400k tonnes of ship and cargo relying on the interface between the two halves....

Lots of 'weak links' every time they come to anchor but I can't recall ever hearing of one failing. Have heard of a crown shackle failing but not a kenter.....

That said, If I was the OP I'd just buy a complete new chain....
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:08   #51
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Used to send the new guy to the chandlery to get a "chain stretcher" on his first day. Either that or to go see if gallons of "prop wash" were on sale. Great thread BTW. Funny, has made me laugh a bit. Keep it coming.
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:12   #52
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Better yet, why don't you tell us (not that I think you would know) why anyone in his right mind....

"Better yet"? and then an attempt at a diversion, completely avoiding the question. Thats your reply to a direct question? Let me try again...

Please tell me the specifics of the time a C-link let you down. I had a 40 year career installing big heavy things with lots of subsurface flotation and millions of dollars of equipment suspended between them, so yeah I probably wouldn't know anything about chain, or torque-balanced wire rope, or any of that stuff. This is one of the reasons why I am so interested in your first hand experience with C-links.

How many C-links of yours have ever failed you? One? Five? Under what specific circumstances?

"Better yet" Can you answer one simple question?

What's your experience with the Crosby C-Link?

Thats about as simple as I can make it. If you can answer that one, perhaps we can move on.
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:32   #53
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
"Better yet"? and then an attempt at a diversion, completely avoiding the question. Thats your reply to a direct question? Let me try again...

Please tell me the specifics of the time a C-link let you down. I had a 40 year career installing big heavy things with lots of subsurface flotation and millions of dollars of equipment suspended between them, so yeah I probably wouldn't know anything about chain, or torque-balanced wire rope, or any of that stuff. This is one of the reasons why I am so interested in your first hand experience with C-links.

How many C-links of yours have ever failed you? One? Five? Under what specific circumstances?

"Better yet" Can you answer one simple question?

What's your experience with the Crosby C-Link?

Thats about as simple as I can make it. If you can answer that one, perhaps we can move on.
bul--I've answered your question:
I have enough sense and experience not to use an inferior method of assembling an anchor rode, even if you do not. Because of my better sense, no C-link will ever let me down.

And I've even stated what I've provided for a primary rode on TN: 270' (1-piece) of 3/8 G4 on a 24,000 lb displacement. On previous boats* I've dragged anchor, but never parted a rode.

*22' Offshore (current)
39' Freya (current)
48' Marlineer
38' Viking
32' Sea Skiff
21' Fiberform
20' Santana
20' IMP
17' Larson
16' Radon
16' Ski
15' Gregor
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:39   #54
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
Acco swivel.
Please dear poster, Im very inexperienced. Would you explain to me how you get the swivel to pass thru the gypsy. But if it can't, how do you man-handle it around the gypsy
'into the hawser, especially when there is so much load on the chain (6knots current or 50kt winds) that the catenary has virtually disappeared?
My boat is small so I don't know much and am keen to learn.
To those who expoll the virtues of joiners....are these joiners always as strong as the chain, g3, BBB, or whatever?
Is it just me who thinks that the a/chain of my home should have no potentially weak links.
Some of these posts bewilder me, but, then my small boat has never travelled more than 150nm of the Tasman Sea in one trip, nor in anything more than 4 metre seas.
I feel life a fish out of water as a poster....should it be a requirement that to qualify as a poster one MUST have, at least, crossed one of the 3 oceans?
Or own a boat valued at in excess of, an arbitrary figure, say $75,000 USD.
Or perhaps have graduated university minimum 3 times.
Drifting here.....
Please help.
SO...many posts confuse me.
In anticipation, thanks Brian Metcalfe.
Don't worry Brian, you are OK. This is just life on the CF. You actually make some pretty good observations about some of the characters here. Sometimes you have to wade through some pretty deep seaweed to get the info you are looking for.
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:51   #55
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

My Bavaria 42 (2000 Cruiser) in Greece came to me with 40 metres of 5/16" chain. I found this was not enough on many occasions for "Med style" stern to anchoring. I added 20 metres and made the join with a C link. When I get back to Greece in May I must have a look at that link. Thanks to this thread for the reminder.
Adding that extra chain did cause a related issue. With the added chain, on retrieval the chain heaps up and jams the windlass. One has to watch the chain very carefully and knock the rising pile of chain over with a stick. I have noticed many other yachts also doing just this.
The chain locker in the B42 is quite large but the chain is dropped at the rear vertical wall of the locker and the pile "climbs" up this wall. Maybe it needs some kind of a lead to make the chain drop further forward in the middle of the locker.
Has anyone found a fix?
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Old 13-12-2015, 12:58   #56
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Pat--it should be a simple matter to design a chain pipe to reposition the chain pile. I've done this in stainless steel on TN because the chain bin is not centered on the windlass.
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Old 13-12-2015, 13:17   #57
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

Discourse on chain - while not 100% on point found this informative.
anchor chain quality

------------------------------
There is potentially a HUGE difference in quality. I was a distributor for a large number of chain manufacturers and suppliers for a number of years. We were approached once by a municipal transit company to have various brands of chain assayed to determine the quality of the wire. As you're concerned, they wanted some quantitative evidence that the expensive stuff was really better than the cheap stuff, (in this case, the product of interest was link type tire chains for use as winter traction devices). We sent a sample of chain from Campbell Chain Co. (now part of the Cooper Grp.), an American made product, and an import sample produced in China. The results were shocking. The results came in the form of sheets of data recording composition of the alloy, case hardness, depth of hardness, tensile strength, etc., and several hi-rez images of cross sections viewed under high magnification. The offshore stuff was full of clay and impurities in the alloy. It's Rc hardness was close, albeit slightly lower than the American stuff, but was evident in only a thin layer on the surface. The Campbell stuff, on the other hand, was of a very high quality steel; high carbon, uniform grain structure, very low impurities. The Rc hardness penetrated to a depth of nearly 20% of the wire diameter. Excellent stuff.
So? The American stuff was over three times the cost of the import. The transit company went with the American product. There are only two domestic manufacturers of welded link chain left today. They are Campbell Chain Co. and ACCO, (American Chain Co.). Both mfr. in York PA and both are of equal quality. There is a company out of Norway called Trygg, which has a well deserved rep. for quality, though they don't distribute widely in the USA. Everything else you'll encounter, including Weisenfels, is an import and of dubious quality. This includes Quality, Security, Premier, LeClede, LaGrande, etc.

In the case of welded link chain, you DEFINATELY get what you pay for.
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Old 13-12-2015, 13:45   #58
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Old 13-12-2015, 13:50   #59
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
hi--You have made many excellent, informative, and well thought out posts, here. This isn't one of them.
+1

Dyneema may have suitable strength properties but lacks the hardness, abrasion resistance and yield properties for use on ground tackle.

Only one option would let me sleep at night. Use the short chain as a spare. Buy new quality grade chain, shackles and safety tie all removable connections.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 13-12-2015, 14:23   #60
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Re: Can I extend my anchor chain?

TN thanks for that. Sounds like a reasonable fix. I will try it out using a bit of PVC pipe, hand held in place, to determine the best pipe length and slope. Then if all good stainless.
I am trying to think of a downside to this solution and maybe 2 nasties, both controllable:
-too big a pipe diameter and a chain knot and jam in the pipe-very unlikely but use minimal-optimal pipe ID
-pipe down slope end is too low and the chain piles up to the pipe end. I think the locker is deep enough to not allow this to happen.
Thanks again
Pat
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