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Old 28-05-2006, 20:09   #1
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Can an Islander Turn into a Swan?

A trip to Mexico to look at an Islander 36 turned out to be a bust. Beth (the wife) said we may have to spend more on a boat so that we can something nicer. Little did I know what she was thinking about. There is a Swan 41 for sale and the wife likes the layout. I don't know much about the boats. I've read that this design was pre IOR design meaning it is more sea kindly. Does anybody know anything about this boat? It is not a Swan 411. Does anybody know the resale value on these boats? Does anyone have access to any boat valuation comparables (NADA didn't cover Swans)? Its on the market for $115k (and this time close to home) is that a fair price for that boat? It seems to have alot of new electonics and is priced lower than any others on yachtworld. I know that I can not live up to the status of owning a Swan though I did sail a Swan 57 from Tahiti to the Cook Islands, NZ, and on to Oz. It was comfortable.
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Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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Old 28-05-2006, 20:50   #2
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Charlie,

My friend bought an older Swan 41 for less than $70K here a couple of years ago and I just read about another one for sale around here asking price in the $70K's. Not sure about a model 411.

The best deal I know about right now is a very tricked-out Formosa 51 (Capt Ron boat) asking less than $100K.

I've always looked in www.yachtworld.com for price comparisons of boats under consideration.

Happy Hunting,

Kirk
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Old 28-05-2006, 20:51   #3
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I can't answer any Swan related questions and you didn't mention the year, however, when buying an older boat you have to spend time with it and look it over. I think that you need to be there when you have it surveyed and ask questions. The condition of boats of that age differ so much it is impossible to tell. When you have stuck a mirror and light into every nook and cranny, smelled the storage areas, checked for staining and rot and delamination you will know if you want to spend the time and effort to rebuild her.

First of all, is it the kind of boat that you will feel comfortable sailing offshore in?

.

What is the reason for the price being out of line with others of it's ilk?

Don't let some new electronics stop you from looking carefully at the wiring.

Is the rig starting to rot?

What condition are the bilges in?

Make sure that everything that is listed is serviceable or cross it off the list and debit the price for replacement cost if it's not.

When you have done all those things the price will fall into line

Good luck, have fun, and don't want it to badly. It's just a thing...

Deep (lemon buyer from way back) <g>
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Old 28-05-2006, 23:06   #4
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No personal experience, but I have heard mostly very good things about old Swans, for what it is worth
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Old 29-05-2006, 07:38   #5
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Hello All:

The boat the admiral has given me permission to look at is a 1976 Swan 41 for $115k


Thanks Kirk:
I found this boat by looking at yachtworld. Do you remeber where you saw the Swan 41 for $70k. I see them in Europe ($140k to $170k us) for alot more than here on the West Coast ($115k us). I'll look at a Formosa 51 but that is alot of boat for the wife and I to handle.

Deepfrz:
Thanks for the advice. When looking at a $30k boat I wan't as worried but with a $100k boat It has got to be in better shape. I'll look at it carefully.


Weylan:
I've read that you need to stay away from the Mid 70's swans that were designed closely to the IOR rule as they are beasts to steer. The Early '70's S&S designs and the later Frers or Holland designs are supposed to be the more sea kindly. I have heard good things too but was wondering about anyone with first hand knowledge.
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Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
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Old 29-05-2006, 07:47   #6
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I wonder if that Islander was around Xcalacx, MX and missing a rudder?
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Old 29-05-2006, 07:50   #7
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Charlie-

You can confirm your IOR questions directly with Nautor Oy, the builders:

Oy Nautor Ab., PO. Box 10, FIN-68601 Pietarsaari, Finland.
Tel: +35867601 111 Telefax: +358 6 7667 364
E-mail: swan.yachts@nautor.inet.fi
Website: www.nautors-swan.com[/font]

www.nautorgroup.com[/font]

They indicate the '41 was built from '73-77 with 66 hulls, designed by Sparkman and Stephens ( http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/ ) who probably could give you their comments on the design target as well.

I've never sailed on one but have never heard a bad word about Swans. Supposed to be impeccably built, outstanding in bad wx, top quality all the way. They don't build anything that small (ha!) any more.<G>

" I know that I can not live up to the status of owning a Swan" No problem, you just say "Yes, it's a Swan, my wife gave it to me for our anniversary." They'll all turn green with envy.<G>
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Old 29-05-2006, 08:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
" I know that I can not live up to the status of owning a Swan" No problem, you just say "Yes, it's a Swan, my wife gave it to me for our anniversary." They'll all turn green with envy.<G>
Thanks Hellosailor:

I like it alot.

I can see it now. A scraggly bearded guy who buys all his clothes from goodwill or consignment shops. sitting on the beach in a crowded anchorage by the dink sipping a cervesa.

Another cruiser comes us and says, "Wow did you see that Swan out there? Its pretty nice."

"Thank you. It's mine. My wife bought it for me for an anniversary present."

green for the boat. green for the wife.

Never Monday:

the Islander was in San Carlos, Mexico. It is a nice project boat. If someone wanted to do the work they could get a nice boat with a good engine, sails, and electronics for $10k to $15k put another $5k into it and alot of sweat equity and they could be off cruising the Sea of Cortez.
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Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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Old 29-05-2006, 08:51   #9
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A freidn lost his Islander off the coast of Xcalax, that's why I asked.
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Old 29-05-2006, 09:35   #10
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sorry to hear that. Must be rough losing a boat.
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Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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Old 29-05-2006, 13:38   #11
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The 41 is an IOR boat. It's an S&S design and a Swan which mitigates the bad aspects of the IOR rule, however. The Swans seemed to not have the really bad handling characteristics that many IOR rule beaters had. Because of it's racing heritage, it will go to weather very well but take large headsails for optimum offwind performance. It's perfect to be set up as a true double headsail rig. Sailed as a cutter, will make the headsails smaller and more manageable. Will still need a big Asymetric chute for broad reaching/running. In any case, the boat is probably set up to be sailed by a large racing crew. You'll have to figure out how you can modify the deck and sail layout to be more small crew friendly. Not hard to do but may take a few bucks.

As far as construction, the Swans are very well built. Very nice joinery but mostly veneered plywood on flat surfaces so don't sand too much. The decks are the only real problem. Teak decks SUCK. Replacement and/or removal need to be figured in if they aren't in good condition.

I've been lusting after the older Swan 43 since they first came out. Probably never get one but they certainly are beautiful boats.

Aloha
Peter O.
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Old 29-05-2006, 15:42   #12
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Thanks Peter:

I have been studying the layout from some drawings I got and I think it will be difficult to change how the sails are raised and lowered. mainly b/c of the headliner. Setting the boat up as a cutter would be a nice way to decrease the amount of sail handling neccesary. I have read that the S41 was designed before the IOR rule beaters got a hold of the shapes of boats. Do you know if the boat will sail downwind well or is it one of those boaats that have bad death rolls? In studying the configuration it looks like a very well laid out boat for our plans.
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Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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Old 29-05-2006, 17:38   #13
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In answer to the thread title, nothing is impossible with a torch and enough money
I am not a fan of the 411. I prefer the Ron Holland designs, but that is just me. While Swans are excellent boats, you might search for a C&C 41 that does not have the Swan name. You may miss the caviar tray, and the chapagne rack, but the rest of the boat will be the same. With Swans, you are paying for the name. The craftmanship has built that name, but That does not mean that a boat without the Swan name will not be a quality boat.
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Old 29-05-2006, 19:47   #14
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Kai:

She is not the 411 it is S&S model previous to that the Swan 41. So small they don't even make them anymore. I think that I would probably go with something that had less of a name. The layout is nice though.
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Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
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Old 29-05-2006, 20:29   #15
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A friend of mine had a Swan 43 Ron Holland design. I fell in love with the boat, but not his asking price. He suggested the same to me, that I search out other builders using the Ron Holland 43 design. He was able to find 3 or 4 of them for sale. The interior was not quite as nice, but it was basically the same boat, and the layout was the same.
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