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Old 22-06-2011, 22:33   #31
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Why spend alot of money on a bad sailing boat when you can get a good sailing boat of roughly comparable quality for about the same money?
where are you getting this from? who said caliber is a bad sailing boat besides you? sabre or tartan no better.
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Old 23-06-2011, 18:43   #32
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

Others said it, not me. My statment was generic. There are so many good sailing boats in the same price range as the larger IPs or Calibers that, if it were me, I'd check them all out before narrowing the choice to two designs.
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Old 23-06-2011, 19:24   #33
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

I owned an IP 40 for five years. I took her 12,000 miles around the Caribbean and had a fantastic trip. I never had an issue with windward performance and I always enjoyed her accommodations at anchor. I like the IP interior better than the Caliber'--just personal preference. I also liked the roller furling staysail rig with the club foot boom.

I'll always remember what is was like waking up in a beautiful anchorage and spending the day with a beautiful woman at my side. I would be happy to do it all over again and I wouldn't change a thing.

Both boats are fine sailors and well built American products. Choose one that suits you and leave tomorrow.

Cheers.
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Old 01-08-2011, 19:44   #34
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

Conch Cruiser was a good finish. thanks, I'm going
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:03   #35
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

I started my search for a blue water cruising boat with Island Packet. At 6'5" I could not stand up in the IP. That was a deal breaker. Later the broker confided that he and his associates referred to it as an Island Piglet. I was happy to discover the IP was not for me because the price was steep and the sailing performance was suspect. As I searched further I discovered that a 1993 Caliber 40 gave me good head room and plenty of storage. I own one now. A fellow owner told me about entering Manasquan Inlet in high seas. He felt the Caliber lifting on a large wave and to his horror was able to see the shells on the bottom ahead of the wave as he crashed down on them. He hit hard twice. He reported no damage to the boat with the exception of the wind generator that broke free on impact. The Caliber is a very strong boat. The difference between the 2 boats truly is one of personal preference (and perhaps cost). I would prefer the term "traditional" to the term "dated." (sailingsymphony@blogspot.com)
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:28   #36
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

Thank you for the answer. The IP does have a great reputation among its' owners but performance apparantly is not one of the better attributes. IT does seem to be much loved by it's owners. I'm still looking because I also want performance with reasonable comfort and safety
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Old 01-12-2011, 17:32   #37
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

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Thank you for the answer. The IP does have a great reputation among its' owners but performance apparantly is not one of the better attributes. IT does seem to be much loved by it's owners. I'm still looking because I also want performance with reasonable comfort and safety
You should buy based on Waterline length then rather than OAL. Realistically, for cruising,it's just a matter of how much sail you are willing to put up. Many cruisers just leave up a small furling genoa, heavy cloth and often high cut and then wonder why the boat doesnt perform as well as they thought it would. I dont blame them, but have seen some full keel boats sailed very well, with a lot of sail up. Sure a racing fin keel spade rudder boat will out point and accelerate in light puffs better, but for cruising this is usually not a concern. Long fin, skeg hung rudder boats really arent much better..... I've tried it with boats that had very good @numbers@. Just sayin... keep it in mind...
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Old 01-12-2011, 17:46   #38
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

While Bob Johnson's IPs are a tad short in performance they make up in comfort ratio and "stuff". IP has gone a long way in filling a needed niche in the cruising boat market. Not to bash the Caliber 40, which in the fashion of Irwins, Endeavours, CSYs and their ilk, built tough cruisers. Yet, it's highly short sighted to put aside boats like the IP465 that has won numerous awards while trying to compare it to the Caliber 47, the 465's clone.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:50   #39
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

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...but performance apparantly is not one of the better attributes...
A common misconception perpetuated mostly by people who've never spent any significant time sailing an IP.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:19   #40
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

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A common misconception perpetuated mostly by people who've never spent any significant time sailing an IP.
With all due respect Hud (and I do respect you greatly) the newer three-digit IPs simply don't sail very fast or point very high. For those of us that define performance using those parameters they are in or below the middle of the pack.

IPs have very many good qualities, but fast passage times offshore are not among them.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:23   #41
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

Jim,

My observation is that people usually make blanket statements like that based on hearsay, not firsthand experience. When asked how they know it to be true, they usually say, "Well a friend of mine told me..."

In over 8,000 nm of offshore passagemaking, we averaged over 80% of hull speed, based on my GPS records. In the 2004 Caribbean 1500, we beat a Saga 43 over the finish line by almost half a day, plus a number of other boats, even though we were one of the two smallest boats in the rally.

An IP will never be able to point like a J-boat, obviously, but in the conditions you normally encounter on passages to and from the Caribbean, the IPs do a lot better than you might expect. One of the reasons for that is that the boat's inherent sailing characteristics allow the helmsman to go faster with more comfort, safety, and less stress on the boat and rig than many "faster", lighter fin keelers. It carries the weight of supplies and gear needed for long-term cruising well, also.

There's a lot more to offshore sailing performance than theoretical hull speed and pointing ability. I'd never beat that Saga 43 in an around-the-buoys race, but we beat him handily on a 1,400 nm open ocean passage because we could press on in somewhat challenging conditions without pounding, staying dry and comfortable in the cockpit, and able to cook hot meals below.

Blanket statements claiming that IPs are "not fast" or "don't perform well" simply aren't true.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:35   #42
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

While you may be correct about the newer versions the same thing was said about the older ones too and my and Hud3's experience differ from that perception.

I buddy boated on an IP 38 with folks who had a longer Catalina and we rarely took longer then them to get anywhere (up or downwind) and even when side by side the difference in speed was negligible. I have no doubt that the Catalina would have beat me in a race and unloaded would have sailed faster even where we were going but in real life cruising with both boats loaded and the usual sails that were middle aged it just wasn't notably different in any way from the other boats we cruised with (Hunters, Morgans, Catalinas, Unions).

This wasn't just my opinion. It was also theirs because they were amazed at first because they all thought that IP's didn't sail that fast, or high, either and were expecting me to be behind them when indeed we were not.

Jim
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:41   #43
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

Hud make a good point. I crewed for a friend a month ago bringing his Cabo Rico 42 from Rock Hall MD. down to Hilton Head SC. We had a couple of days of "challenging" conditions with winds above 35K. The first of these was on the bay, and the second was offshore. In both cases, while the seas were lumpy, the boat handled it smoothly and with no complaints. We were dry and not unhappy. Crews on other boats were not so unhappy. Other (larger) boats took longer going south simply because the conditions were too uncomfortable. I'll take dry/comfortable over faster/weatherly any day. For what it's worth, my CR 38 sails plenty fast for what I want to do. It has such a nice motion, I'm never left wishing for the destination to arrive.
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Old 02-12-2011, 18:12   #44
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Re: Caliber vs Island Packet

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Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
With all due respect Hud (and I do respect you greatly) the newer three-digit IPs simply don't sail very fast or point very high. For those of us that define performance using those parameters they are in or below the middle of the pack.

IPs have very many good qualities, but fast passage times offshore are not among them.
And you have made how many offshore passages in an IP?
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:18   #45
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I'd agree- don't underestimate the IP.

IMO, buoy racers tend to overemphasize characteristics like tight tacking angles that just don't matter as much to typical long distance cruising. (unless you are going around the world against the trades)

In my opinion, If you want speed, buy a plane ticket and charter a carbon fiber racer at your destination. Don't risk life and limb trying to hit 12 knots when you can go 500. Plane tickets are cheaper anyway.

If you want to cruise, an IP is a sturdy, safe, comfortable and reasonably fast solution- enjoy the sail and the time at sea.
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