Caliber vs Island Packet

[Seahunter]

These two sail differently because they are different hulls. Bob Johnson boats have mostly had heavy weatherhelm and ride stiffer than most cruisers (they like to stand upright). In my humble opinion, the Caliber is dated in design (not just old fashioned) and cuts corners with materials and amenities. When cruising, one needs space and room to put "stuff" while being able to easily maintain installed equipment, rather than splitting a kidney trying to check the oil. The Caliber is a nice boat, but not as nice as an IP if you looking for a heavy cruiser which I believe is the point of this thread.

[sck5]

I have heard it said that IP's are better at anchor and Calibers better when under way.

[Rou-Coo]

Thanks for all the interesting information. I am a bit puzzled over the fact that various posters refer to the Caliber as outdated but the consensus seems to be that it is a significantly better sailer than the IP (especially to windward).

[djmarchand]

Over the last twenty years or so, cruising sailboats have evolved from a hull shape that has a transom beam of maybe 60% of maximum beam to today's hull where the beam at the transom can be 90% of the maximum beam.

That gives the newer designs a lot more room below and aft. It does not necessarily make them better sailers.

[Curmudgeon]

What are you trying to accomplish by comparing these two boats? For the price of a Caliber 47 or IP 445 you could by a Southerly 42 or 46 and have a better boat in every conceivable way. Or if you insist on an American boat, get a Sabre or a Tartan 4100. Why spend alot of money on a bad sailing boat when you can get a good sailing boat of roughly comparable quality for about the same money?

[Cheechako]

In many cases the fuller aft sections give the boat better reaching speed.... so I wouldnt necessarily call it a performance deficit. Depends on whether they flattened the bottom up a bit when they made it wider... No boat is perfect, both of these boats are good are far as I can tell.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

These two sail differently because they are different hulls. Bob Johnson boats have mostly had heavy weatherhelm and ride stiffer than most cruisers (they like to stand upright)...

They definitely stand upright--mine sailed best at max 15 degree heel--but the weather helm comment isn't true. It's just a matter of balancing the sails. I could get my helm completely neutral if I wanted to.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

In many cases the fuller aft sections give the boat better reaching speed.... so I wouldnt necessarily call it a performance deficit. Depends on whether they flattened the bottom up a bit when they made it wider... No boat is perfect, both of these boats are good are far as I can tell.

I would argue the above point- I really don't think any cruising sailboat benefits from the fuller aft sections from a handling or performance aspect. I don't know of any cruising sailboat that can plane or surf regularly. I think this is a myth perpetuated by the phenomenal performance of Volvo Ocean Race type boats, which I doubt any one of us would want to cruise on.

Aft section beam IMHO makes boats feel weird when they heel (like they are doing a nose dive) and helps raise rudders out of the water so they stall. Aft section beam however sure helps with accomodations and comfort.

Just look at J boats answer to a performance cruiser-the J42. They always design the boat around performance and handling rather than accomodations. Not much beam carried aft either, and having sailed one- it sure sails sweetly. Granted, not my first choice for a cruiser, but helps support notion that aft beam is not a performance booster in cruisers.

[Curmudgeon]

Ron Holland's Southerlys have twin rudders, which helps solve the stalling problem.

[sck5]

southerlys sure are nice boats. now if i just had a half million bucks extra, i would be sailing one.....

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by sck5

southerlys sure are nice boats. now if i just had a half million bucks extra, i would be sailing one.....

Welcome to the club. Actually the 110 or the 35RS can probably be had for $300-350K U.S., depending on where exchange rates are at the moment.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Welcome to the club. Actually the 110 or the 35RS can probably be had for $300-350K U.S., depending on where exchange rates are at the moment.

Why not a used one and save yourself $100K+?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=42626&url=

[Curmudgeon]

There are no used 110's or 35rs Southerlys for sale in the U.S.at the moment. If you but a used European boat, you have to fly over to see it, sail it (or ship it) back, redo the electrical system and probably redo the waste management system as well.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

There are no used 110's or 35rs Southerlys for sale in the U.S.at the moment. If you but a used European boat, you have to fly over to see it, sail it (or ship it) back, redo the electrical system and probably redo the waste management system as well.

I know ... why is it the one you want is always somewhere else!

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

if you looking for a heavy cruiser which I believe is the point of this thread.

that was not the point of the thread. heavy cruisers are not always the answer. your accusation of caliber cutting corners is unfounded. give me some proof. if anything the IP hull is dated .. full keel slow heavy displacement.