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Old 16-11-2019, 16:04   #1
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Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Hi Guys,

some may know - we are looking for a ship with very high comfort "in the waves" for going to the high north. I would go for a steel ship, but I LOVE those fishers by their looks and layout.

46 is rare - very rare. Now there is one for sale which seems to be on an extremely bad shape. I usually would say everybody should run from it - but it is the only one out there.

- despite the price - which would be to "negotiate" - would anyone here dare to buy and refit such a boat?

it it worthwhile?

I am falling for it, but I am afraid to by expensive camp fire material.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/77756

anyone with experience in refit or best - fisher refit?
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Old 16-11-2019, 16:14   #2
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

First what do you consider ‘high north’? Second is how long will you be cruising higher latitudes, a summer several years? Thirdly is the leaks will have to be fixed before heading to higher latitudes for extended cruising which looks like it will be extensive and most likely a good amount of rot. Just from the pictures it looks like you might be spending twice asking price getting it ready.
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Old 16-11-2019, 16:33   #3
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway View Post
Hi Guys,

some may know - we are looking for a ship with very high comfort "in the waves" for going to the high north. I would go for a steel ship, but I LOVE those fishers by their looks and layout.

46 is rare - very rare. Now there is one for sale which seems to be on an extremely bad shape. I usually would say everybody should run from it - but it is the only one out there.

- despite the price - which would be to "negotiate" - would anyone here dare to buy and refit such a boat?

it it worthwhile?

I am falling for it, but I am afraid to by expensive camp fire material.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/77756

anyone with experience in refit or best - fisher refit?
Hi, the pics show a sadly neglected vessel, though much is of a cosmetic nature, and would require a lot of work to return it to good condition. It appears that most or all of the hatches have been leaking for a long time and require immediate re bedding and probably repair, along with the timberwork and soft furnishings. The add mentions that the rigging should be replaced as well. None of this will be cheap though doable, and I, like yourself have a soft spot for the design. Think hard before you commit to it, or there may be some nasty financial surprises, particularly if you have to pay trades to do all the work.
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Old 16-11-2019, 16:40   #4
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Actually I didn't think it looked too bad for the price.

The questions I guess you need to ask yourself:

1. Do you have the skills to do a basic refit of the boat?

3. Do you have the time stuck in a foreign country to sort it?

4. What price will new sails and rigging for a ketch cost?

There are going to be a shed load of other smaller jobs taking time and money, if you have the energy. If I was retired I might be hopping on a 747 right now. What would I do with it? keep it really simple by removing any that didn't work, or wasn't 100% needed.

Another thread worth reading, including the rebuild of a F30 that sunk. Astonishing amount of work:

Fisher 30' seaworthiness
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Old 16-11-2019, 17:09   #5
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

The short and rude answer is, how much time and money do you have to sink into her? Whatever number you have in your head, that it will need in repairs, double it, at least.

Although she is a beautiful boat, there is A LOT of behind the scenes work to be done. To try to put it into perspective. I recently purchased a 1984 30' Catalina from a family friend for a song. A 30' boat is not that large and does not have that many systems in it. However, my initial guess into what it would cost to get her to lets say 90% condition was 5-8k dollars. Now that I have had her for a month or so and have started refitting her I am now looking more realistically looking at 10-15k.

A couple of things to consider with this example. 1st there are some things I am going a bit, over and above on. Such as charging systems, types of batteries, and other "niceties" that aren't exactly "necessary" like all LED lights. And I promise as you go along you will find things that you are spending money on that "could" be done for less i.e. not upgrading to all LED lights.

Secondly when it comes to cost for repairs and maintenance, expenses on boats don't grow linearly per foot but rather exponentially per foot. For example, if you have ever been on a lets say 27' boat of one make and then been on a 30' boat of the same make, the size and system difference in those 3 feet is quite large along with the costs of upgrading or maintaining them.

The long short of it is, there are going to be A LOT of add ons and hidden problems that are going to increase your refit bill drastically. A bunch of these costs are going to be for smaller repairs that add up rather quickly and once you're in for a penny you're in for a pound.

Not saying it is not a good Purchase but, spending that kind on money on a fixer upper is a bit like marriage. If you're not 100% sure before hand then don't do it, because getting out of it is much harder and more costly then getting into it.
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Old 16-11-2019, 17:39   #6
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

I have lot's of refit experience on smaller boats and all I can add is that whatever you think it will cost and the time it will take, multiply by 10 to get a more reasonable final estimate. Imo, if you've never done a comprehensive refit before (and that will be a comprehensive refit) that is probably not the vessel to buy. My reasoning is that if liveaboard owners were incapable of fixing interior damaging leaks, there's a high probability that the boat will have literally hundreds of other "deferred maintenance" items to deal with.
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Old 16-11-2019, 17:59   #7
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibetitsthisway View Post
Hi Guys,

some may know - we are looking for a ship with very high comfort "in the waves" for going to the high north. I would go for a steel ship, but I LOVE those fishers by their looks and layout.

46 is rare - very rare. Now there is one for sale which seems to be on an extremely bad shape. I usually would say everybody should run from it - but it is the only one out there.

- despite the price - which would be to "negotiate" - would anyone here dare to buy and refit such a boat?

it it worthwhile?

I am falling for it, but I am afraid to by expensive camp fire material.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/77756

anyone with experience in refit or best - fisher refit?
What a beast! I'd have a GOOD survey and do the math before making an offer or go very low, say 35k's to offset the inevitable 100k's it'll take to make it right.
25 tons o'fun!
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Old 16-11-2019, 18:06   #8
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Heck yeah I am in. That is one sexy wheelhouse and what a beast of a boat. But the reality is that she is going to break your wallet and heart.
Why not buy a Lord Nelson 41 and retrofit a leaning forward wheelhouse/dodger with roll down clears.
If you purchased something like this you would be miles in front and have newer systems. Imagine getting rid of that mish mash of dodger/bimini and having a Fisher style wheelhouse instead? You could even vent the diesel heater into the cockit so you could smoke your pipe and wear slippers! I surveyed a Lord Nelson last week and you could definately do it.
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/81248

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Old 16-11-2019, 18:08   #9
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

I think all the previous replies are good ones: if you have time and money..... this Fisher and your planned destinations might be a good fit.
Maybe the current location of the boat might pose logistical problems, as you have to cross an ocean to take it home.

I like that boat, and if I were in the market, and it was relatively close ie within a few weeks sailing/motoring distance, I certainly would have a look. And even now, if I was on holidays, and traveling in that general direction, I would have a look!!

On the other hand, have you ever considered these 2 boats from the same era? PanOceanic 46, that has a pilot house, or a Doug Peterson 46, centre cockpit, no pilot house? Both similar size as this Fisher, both heavily built, often with the same Ford engine, but both much better sailing boats.

Note, I have seen a DP46 where the centre cockpit was enclosed with nicely roundish shaped fibreglass. That was very practical and didn't look much of an add-on.

Edit: just noticed above comment by Fore-and-Aft: I like the Lord Nelson too, is quite big for its size, and some Westsails and Hans Christians have a pilot house with reverse slanting windows.
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Old 16-11-2019, 19:22   #10
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

1 Its a 1977 boat. It’s probably hull#1 in that series or close. Every thing will be tired.
2 They have lived aboard for 17 years. It’s probably been in the water most of that time. It is possible you could spend 2-4 years in the yard to dry out the hull.
3 These are HUGE boats for the length. Look at displacement to get a more true comparison to size.
4 I going out on a limb with this, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I believe that Fisher added bow sprite to later models. They just don’t have the sail area to push them along. It’s at best a “motor sailed” and more likely a motor boat with an auxiliary steadying sail that will get you home eventually if the beast dies. Take a look at the SAD ratios, you might want to add a bowsprit. But then you will need new head sails.
5 Good news is she is in Río Dulce where they have some pretty complete yards to hail and do the work. Reportedly relatively inexpensively. If you want to do the work yourself you had better like hot a lot.
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Old 16-11-2019, 19:46   #11
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Actually I didn't think it looked too bad for the price.

The questions I guess you need to ask yourself:

1. Do you have the skills to do a basic refit of the boat?

3. Do you have the time stuck in a foreign country to sort it?

4. What price will new sails and rigging for a ketch cost?

There are going to be a shed load of other smaller jobs taking time and money, if you have the energy. If I was retired I might be hopping on a 747 right now. What would I do with it? keep it really simple by removing any that didn't work, or wasn't 100% needed.

Another thread worth reading, including the rebuild of a F30 that sunk. Astonishing amount of work:

Fisher 30' seaworthiness

That

Though I’m a still somewhat of a greenhorn/getting back into it boat refit wise, nothing screamed out that bad, though based on her size and where I’d want to get the boat to condition and outfit wise, well I got a 30’ for a reason, that’s a good chunk of boat lol
Biggest issue I see for that thing is location.

The wheel house is pretty cool
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Old 16-11-2019, 20:39   #12
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
1 Its a 1977 boat. It’s probably hull#1 in that series or close. Every thing will be tired.
2 They have lived aboard for 17 years. It’s probably been in the water most of that time. It is possible you could spend 2-4 years in the yard to dry out the hull.
3 These are HUGE boats for the length. Look at displacement to get a more true comparison to size.
4 I going out on a limb with this, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I believe that Fisher added bow sprite to later models. They just don’t have the sail area to push them along. It’s at best a “motor sailed” and more likely a motor boat with an auxiliary steadying sail that will get you home eventually if the beast dies. Take a look at the SAD ratios, you might want to add a bowsprit. But then you will need new head sails.
5 Good news is she is in Río Dulce where they have some pretty complete yards to hail and do the work. Reportedly relatively inexpensively. If you want to do the work yourself you had better like hot a lot.

Hi, I have an Aussie built Fisher 32, not nearly the size of this one I know, but I have to say that while it is not a sparkling performer under sail when compared to a fin keel boat or for that matter many other keel/ skeg hung rudder boats it is most definitely not a motor boat with a steadying sail.
I have sailed with a number of cynics on board who had this mindset and it was best summed up by the comment of one of the most cynical, "you know, this thing doesn't sail nearly as bad as I thought they did"
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Old 16-11-2019, 23:40   #13
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

I think you could reasonably talk the owner down to $50,000.

Presuming buying all new gear, you're looking at these costs to make the boat reliable and safe:

$5,000 in basic hull and deck work like re-bedding chainplates, hatches, and seals everywhere to get the boat dry which you will need to have in the high latitudes. Much of this you could do yourself if you have the skills.

$5,000 in new standing rigging and tuning.

$5,000 in haul-out, bottom prep, epoxy, paint, and rudder post overhaul.

$20,000 in new sail suit and running rigging.

$10,000 in new re-power, shaft, stuffing-box and prop. A 40-yo engine is not safe for cold-weather sailing.

$15,000 in modern electronics fit-out including an appropriately sized auto-pilot ram and radar. If you want comfort, you need a modern autopilot with a 9-axis gyro and wave-train prediction.

$2000 for water system replace.

$3000 in bedding, foam, curtains, and basic interior remodel.

So I'd plan on an additional $60K in refurb and upgrade. I think $110-$120 for a worthy high latitudes boat is a good deal.
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Old 17-11-2019, 01:12   #14
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Hallo everyone

Thanks for all the detailed answers.

I have been refitting a Mobile home and a 25feet 40year old boat lately. Therefore i have had 5 40ft seefreight Containers at home as my "yard".
Work was fun. But putting a 46ft boat there would mean another 10k transport cost ... one way. In Addition i Think 25 ft and 46ft is some difference. Maybe 10x the workload?

You are absolutely right...location of the boat is the Problem.
Viewing. Survey...getting home?
Maybe best would be on a freighter and not on keel.
All this ads up badly.

I was thinking about offering some 20-30k...if atvall... and having here refitet in a Yard ..in europe...for about 100k? Not perfekt but ... 90%?

I simply dont know if it will be 200k at the end which will not be within my possibilities and also not worth it i guess...
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Old 17-11-2019, 01:23   #15
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Re: Buying THIS rotten fisher 46 for refit to cruise high latitudes?

Whilst I do like the Fisher, as suggested what else is there on the market with similar features? well how about these, closer to home and a lot less work.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...nced%20listing

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...owse%20listing
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