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Old 08-07-2015, 09:37   #16
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
Headroom is non-negotiable. We don't want a Beneteau/Hunter/Catalina. The boat must be under 40 feet, and preferably in the 35-37 range.
Why limit yourself? Why not look at what is out there and then make a decision? At least you'll have a bigger pool to shop from - no harm in looking.
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:01   #17
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

Skipmac,

We're on the same page here buddy. The OP made no mention of their "do it them selves" skills. I tackle everything first myself just like you... just spent an entire day refinishing the second to final portion of my teak deck which will then be 90% complete sometime on Saturday. I already have over 250 hours into the deck work spread over two summers.

Your post was excellent and I hope the OP reads it, because what was described in the original post was not a throw money at it sort of project, it was a roll up the sleeves and get dirty kinda project.

Ken
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:53   #18
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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The OP made no mention of their "do it them selves" skills.
I am definitely reading all of the posts and appreciate the input. As for our DIY skills, my bad. I should have mentioned that.

Mr. cthoops is very handy (former air frames mechanic in the Marines) with a great ability to MacGyver when necessary, and I'm getting better at it. We have no problem with digging into projects and getting our hands dirty, and actually prefer to do so. We figure there's no better way to learn about a boat while spending less money at the same time.

We've been fortunate with our current boat in that we haven't had to do much, but we've removed the head, hoses, and holding tank (replaced it with a Nature's Head), rebedded the chainplates, installed a new seacock and thruhull, and a few other miscellaneous items. It's not much, but it's enough to have seen for ourselves that boat projects take at least twice as much time as we expect, and usually more money.

There are some areas where our knowledge base is zero or close to it (electrics and diesel engines anyone?), but we're not afraid of taking the time we need to learn, and calling a professional if we get in over our heads.

I wouldn't consider doing this if we were leaving in a year (or even two), but we're not, so I think that helps.
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Old 08-07-2015, 11:59   #19
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
There are some areas where our knowledge base is zero or close to it (electrics and diesel engines anyone?), but we're not afraid of taking the time we need to learn, and calling a professional if we get in over our heads.

I wouldn't consider doing this if we were leaving in a year (or even two), but we're not, so I think that helps.
So pretty much if you find a boat with good electrical and engine you will be good to go
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:25   #20
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

[QUOTE=Cthoops;1864843]

Frankly, I don't think the age of a boat automatically classifies it as a project, nor is it someone's failed dream. Our 1975 Bristol 24 is solid with zero leaks or soft spots. We have time, we like to keep things simple, and we're not going to pull the trigger until we find something similar. Own a boat long enough (and use it) and big items will have to be replaced. We'd rather head out knowing it's been done.


QUOTE]

How about another Bristol. Here's a 1979 Bristol 35.5 with a 2005 engine:

1979 Bristol 35.5 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:47   #21
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

Definitely not all 70s boats are project boats. I have a 70's boat I coastal cruise, I do upgrades and repairs as necessary or desired, but the boat cruised just fine in the condition she was purchased.

After 3 years I have done no major work on any major system, bit I have done electronics upgrades and engine repairs as necessary.

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Old 08-07-2015, 12:58   #22
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

You will find several different types of "sailors' on this forum and what boat they think you should buy.

Some will sail on nothing older than 10 years or so. Others will take an older boat and totally redo it and replace all the electronics spending a ton in the process.

Then there are those of us that buy a decent boat and just sail the thing and upgrade as needed. I have maybe $8,000 in my boat and that includes the price of the boat, a new main, new outboard, an old diesel I tried that failed, solar panels to 140 watts, inverters 400 and 1500 watts, and some new running rigging.
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Old 08-07-2015, 13:19   #23
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

I think part of the issue here is the definition of a "project boat."

I don't think the OP is talking about a project boat. I think they're talking about a perfectly good, seaworthy older boat that can be sailed away today but that will need to have sails, rigging, and maybe engine upgraded over the next few years.

To me, a project boat is some derelict in a farmer's field that can't go in the water and sail away today. Those are usually a very bad idea.
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Old 08-07-2015, 13:52   #24
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

Your approach is very similar to ours Cthoops, although we may have been aiming slightly higher on the "ready-to-go" scale -- but not much . When we finally found our current boat she'd had her standing rigging replaced in recent years, engine had low hours, she came with a windvane installed, there were no (major) deck leaks, the bottom recently redone, etc. With our budget, needs and aesthetic values we were naturally drawn to 1970s and 80s boats, but we definitely took our time to find a quality foundation that would be worth investing in over the long term. I didn't want a project boat, but neither could I afford one that was without flaws. In the end, we bought the best quality boat we could afford which met our needs, and would do what we planned to do.

It sounds like you understand what you actual needs are in your next boat. Take your time. I'm sure you'll find the right boat, and I'm sure you'll make your budget work.
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Old 08-07-2015, 14:04   #25
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
I think part of the issue here is the definition of a "project boat."

I don't think the OP is talking about a project boat. I think they're talking about a perfectly good, seaworthy older boat that can be sailed away today but that will need to have sails, rigging, and maybe engine upgraded over the next few years.

To me, a project boat is some derelict in a farmer's field that can't go in the water and sail away today. Those are usually a very bad idea.
Excellent point. Clarify how much of a "project" the boats under consideration might be. About as tricky as trying to define "blue water".
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Old 08-07-2015, 14:23   #26
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
Headroom is non-negotiable. We don't want a Beneteau/Hunter/Catalina. The boat must be under 40 feet, and preferably in the 35-37 range. Once those requirements (and others) are applied, and budget is taken into consideration, you'd be surprised at how few candidates are left. Believe me, we've spent hundreds of hours researching possibilities. There aren't many.


Frankly, I don't think the age of a boat automatically classifies it as a project, nor is it someone's failed dream. Our 1975 Bristol 24 is solid with zero leaks or soft spots. We have time, we like to keep things simple, and we're not going to pull the trigger until we find something similar. Own a boat long enough (and use it) and big items will have to be replaced. We'd rather head out knowing it's been done.


I'm not looking for validation since we've already decided what we're going to do. I guess just writing it down and hearing from a few other people who HAVE done it assures me that our instincts are right. LOL. I suppose that's a form of validation.


Thanks.
I aquired a Douglas 32 that had not been used for many many years..I put fuel in it fired her up and have been going strong ever sense,didnt change any lines,rigging ,sails (did change the fuel filter) ...It will need new lines etc before I move her back to the ocean but I feel that to have replaced everything before hand would have denied me the opportunity to have all the fun I have had with her the past 5 or so years..There are sail boats out there that just need someone to sail them as opposed to spending a small fortune getting them ready to have fun on..There are some that need most everything before that fun can be had,those I would avoid for sure as I have no time or money for projects..
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Old 08-07-2015, 15:01   #27
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

I think you are basically trading risks.

Let's say the issue is the engine:
- Boat 1 has a recently replaced (say 5yrs ago) engine. Assuming everything looks good, compression is good, hours look reasonable, etc...there is no reason not to expect 15-20yrs of reliable service if you continue to maintain it.
- Boat 2 is roughly the same except it has the original 40yr old motor in it and it is in poor shape, to the point you would want to replace it. Let's say a standard replacement would cost $10k...but when you pull it out, you find the new motor doesn't match the engine mounts, so you have to redo the stringers, then you find transmission doesn't mate up, so you need a custom adapter, then you find....etc...etc..

If I were to take a boat on that I knew needed major projects, I would want a discount substantially more than the expected cost to do the projects and the cost to do the projects would be based on paying someone to do it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 15:44   #28
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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In particular, we want to stay under 40' but we need headroom for Mr. cthoops who is 6'4"...
So, how much time does he imagine he'll be spending standing up when below on a boat of that size? :-)

One often needs to accept a host of downsides in smaller boats when putting such a priority on headroom... Such boats often have excessive freeboard, very shallow bilges, high coachroofs, and so on - that if nothing else, often come in less than an 'attractive' package...

IMHO, headroom is one of the most overrated features on smaller yachts, and you could be passing up some wonderful boats by ruling them out based on headroom alone... In any event, there's a very simple way to increase headroom: Try actually sailing the boat, put it on a heel, and Voila'... Instant Headroom :-)

I think the legendary Uffa Fox nailed it when it comes to headroom on a smaller boat: "If you want headroom, all you have to do is go up on deck..."

And I'm 6' 5", for what it's worth...

;-)
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Old 08-07-2015, 18:30   #29
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

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I think part of the issue here is the definition of a "project boat."

I don't think the OP is talking about a project boat. I think they're talking about a perfectly good, seaworthy older boat that can be sailed away today but that will need to have sails, rigging, and maybe engine upgraded over the next few years.

To me, a project boat is some derelict in a farmer's field that can't go in the water and sail away today. Those are usually a very bad idea.
Exactly. We are definitely not interested in boats that are sitting in a farmer's field.

You've hit the nail on the head. A good, seaworthy older boat. She's out there somewhere for us.
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Old 09-07-2015, 04:13   #30
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Re: Buying the cruising boat - are we way off base?

I believe Joshua Slocum found his boat in a "farmer's field" if I remember correctly.

I know he circumnavigated with it at least once solo. Worked out for him .............


http://wvbackroads.com/Acheive/Slocum/JoshuaSlocum.html
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