Buying an ex-charter Beneteau Oceanis 411/423: items to inspect

[CAPTAINRONBVI]

SAFC

last year, Feb 2014 i purchased a 2004 (launched 2005) beneteau 50 from a charter company and beneteau dealer in split, croatia. although i would not recommend buying any yachts from them - new or old, i am extremely pleased with this yacht.

if you want particulars on why i do not recommend purchasing anything from this particular charter company, PM me and i will give you the private skinny on them

now for the good news. this is ths second ex-charter yacht i have purchased and am as pleased now i was when i purchased my first 1993 beneteau 40 in the bvi.

buying a charter yacht can generally be had for about 1/3 less than retail (privately owned) yachts. now taking the difference in funds i initially saved over purchasing retail, i have not only been able to repair or refurbish nearly all the important items every one else has instructed you to inspect, but i have at the same time and nearly the same costs of replacing old technology, i have successfully been able to make significant upgrades.

This is now converted from sloop to a cutter rig, feathering prop, 9 lithium batteries (8 x 120 service + 1 x 120 starter), Atlantic towers solar arch with davits, 720 watts solar, 4000 watt pure sine wave aims inverter/charger (220 vac), a transformer for converting the 220 to 110 vac thus having the ability to use European appliances and American ones.

i cut down the spinnaker that came with the purchase to an asym and cut the spinnaker pole down and made it into a bow sprit. everyone show sees this yacht compliments me on it's good looks. partly due to just washing the deck decks from gray to golden and every 4 -5 months laying down a couple of coats of teak wonder sealer. that maintenance takes me 2 hours for 2 coats.

I now have a yacht that I can continue to sail single handed, single line reefing (slab reefing) that i can perform in 90 seconds from the cockpit and so many more features that oen rarely finds on a retail yacht all for under $200,000 (average retail price for this yacht at time of my purchase)

as pointed out here and by others, an ex-charter yacht can be a great investment. Mine is my home (live-aboard) and my pleasure dome.

i am currently in pescara, italy - directly across the adriatic from split croatia. I will be in split mid December. i will give you my cell phone number in croatia if you PM me.

any advice i can render, feel free to ask. i know many people there including surveyors, other charter companies and even a company that will handle all the registration and necessary documents you need. my vessel is registered in Delaware, U S flagged and under the Croatian regulations, i was legally not obligated to pay vat (25%).

best of luck

[jmtindle3]

My first charter boat I bought from Sunsail in Martinique in 2992. The boat Jeanneau 45 was in charter for 5 years. It was in good shape and the engine had 3,000 hr on it. WE sold the boat in 2011 for what we had in it. A fantastic boat. Last year we bought a Jeanneau 39i for Sunsail/Moorings. It was build in 2009 with only 1500 hr on the engine. It was clean inside and out. Would I do it again? No question. When we bought the 45 there were 3 other 45s for sail. I got the only good one. The others where well used. If you get on owners version you are better off as it probably has less use. I would not buy a charter boat if it had high engine hrs and had been in charter long time. The Jeanneau 39i I just bought looks almost new and as if it was never in charter. Good luck Remember you get a charter boat cheap because it is a charter boat.

[Stu Jackson]

While this is set up for new buyers and you seem knowledgeable, some of the items may help in your To Do list:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips | SailboatOwners.com Forums

[Safc]

Hi everybody,

Thank you all for the valuable replies. Especially the ones about the rudder !
Definately have to check that one of course, I guess it's accessable from one of the 2 aft cabins ?

Any more comments about my estimated costs ? I guess no-one replaced a mast yet... i hope not anyway

Heading out to Croatia tonight. When I'm back, I'll give you all an update and will edit my first post for the others.

Smooth seas all.
Safc

[JPA Cate]

We replaced the mast, the rigging and running riggiing in 1996 on a 36 foot sloop. Everything, altogether, winches, antennas, came to about 25,000 USD at that time.

Those costs vary according to the type of mast, type of wire used, and, of course, exactly what needs replacing. Our mast was at the bottom of the Tasman, so we also needed a new furler, etc.,etc.

I think, generally, your cost estimates are a little low.... Especially if you went for the 47 footer. A cheap dacron sail for that boat (about a 4 yr. sail, according to our sailmaker, would cost $4,000, at least. You could check Lee sails for a price, though, give yourself an idea.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

If you specify what you plan to do with the boat, it will help us a lot in terms of telling you what takes priority in terms of inspecting & replacing.

Also, the more (reliable) service records that are available on the boat, the better. But on something the age you're talking, unless you're both Real careful, & Real lucky, you could be looking at a lot of refitting.

At a minimum, for safety & peace of mind, think about doing all of the standing rigging, & much of the running rigging. Plus re-bedding much to most of the deck hardware, & anything else which penetrates the deck. - Be sure to check for soft spots!

That, & figure on adding a new sail or three. If for no other reason than to give her sails which cover the full wind range, & range of angles. As it's unlikely that the boat will come with a full "quiver".
Plus, it's more than likely, some number of new working sails would improve her handling immensely (faster sailing, with less heeling, over a wider range of wind angles). - Quality sails are a good investment, as they far outlast, & outperform cheap ones.

I'd also strongly suggest doing a lot of reading on boat construction (pro & amateur), in addition to the stuff on surveying. As, if you know how they're built, including the descriptions of the how to & how not to do things, then it's easier to see flaws which have developed; over time, or due to accidents.
And if you've the time, read the posts & blogs of some of the wise surveyors on the forums.

To give you an example of stuff which is construction & surveying related, re; Groundings -
Look at the hull structure at the juncture of both ends of the keel. As a grounding of significance will typically show up in those areas. Commonly as cracked or crushed laminates & structural members. Especially with the keel having pushed upwards & inwards at it's aft end. And pulled down & away in it's forward most sections.
Look for repaired or added laminates, & or structural framing in such areas.

Lastly: In the wise words of Nigel Calder: "If there's something structural wrong, just walk away". As stated herein A Refit Reality Check | Cruising World an excellent article!

[Safc]

Hello all,

Just back from my trip to Croatia.

General impression on the seen charter yachts: Most of them are done for. Really. You might be able to buy them cheap, but there is a LOT of work to be done and money to be spent on most of them. I say most of them, since from the 11 boats I saw there is 1 which might be worth investigationg further.
Will post more info and pics later.

Here is 1 thing I was wondering about:

On a few of the visited 411's, i saw following 'bulkheads' either broken or clearly tampered with:















Would love to hear from 411 owners whether this looks the same with you guys, if the bulkhead is original in the first place, and what the reason could be it broke. As you can see, it's near the 'pipe' of the rudder stock.

Brgds,

Safc

[Safc]

PS - some of the charter boats were DEFINATELY in better condition then some of the privately owned yachts I saw.... I guess you need some luck :-)

[barnakiel]

I think, at times, we are doing a social disservice while discussing charter boats.

Boats designed and built for charter purposes (and yes, there are such boats around) are designed and built to match this specific business plan / financing schedule. Basically, a boat of this kind is bought/leased into a company, used X years (often about 5 years), D&A'ed, then sold off. Then a new boat is bought. What is the reason this boat is sold at time X?

The designer and the builder are aware of this and so they provide a boat that meets this time horizon / use / to the target user (the charter company, NOT to the person who buys an ex charter boat). The same applies to many components of the boat (e.g. sails).

Any person buying an ex-charter boat of this type should be well aware of the facts. And then as long as one is happy with the facts, one is free to make the right decisions.

I am not talking of any boats that are chartered. I am talking about boats designed for specific charter use. Look at major charter fleets in the Med or West Indies and you will know which boats they are.

b.

[tbeson]

I just purchased a 1996 440 Oceanis, send me a note if you pruchased one. I can update you on all the modifications we are in the process of making.